Knife-Crimes & Police Numbers

[Khandro]

I hold no brief for Theresa May, but is she right in her assertion that there is no direct correlation between knife crimes and police numbers?

"Despite the spate of knife murders in recent days, May took time out on a visit to Salisbury yesterday to rigidly stick to her line that numbers of cops and crime were not linked. “There is no direct correlation between certain crimes and police numbers,” she said. Even the usually sure-footed Home Office minister Victoria Atkins claimed last November that police numbers were unrelated to crime. “In the late 2000s there was a similar spike in violence and there were many, many more police officers on the streets in that day and age,” she said then."

Huffpost

[bainbrig]

The SPG "victims of their own success"?

Tell that to Blair Peach's family.

Here is one line from the official report into the SPG at the time:

"Cass' investigation of the Met's Special Patrol Group (SPG) headquarters unearthed a hoard of unauthorised weapons, including various illegal truncheons and knives, two crowbars, a whip, a 3 ft wooden stave, and a lead-weighted leather stick." (Wikipedia)

Effective they might have been. Policing it wasn't.

BB

[retrocop]

Did you not have any power until 1984 to stop/search any one who you had good reason to suspect were in possessionof stolen goods or other unlawful property ? l recall one of the Stop/Search acts was the Vagrancy Act 1884. We had to tick one of two boxes on the stop slip we completed at the time with reason for stop.

[anotheoldgit]

/// May took time out on a visit to Salisbury yesterday to rigidly stick to her line that numbers of cops and crime were not linked. “There is no direct correlation between certain crimes and police numbers,” she said. ///
I bet that her police protection hasn't been reduced or for any of our politicians in fact.
And how many times are we to hear that absent black Fathers are to blame, in the age we now live in unfortunately there are a great number of absent Fathers among the whites but mostly their children don't turn to drugs and knife crime.

[dannyk13]

Retro,nly thing I can remember(a long time ago) in relation to stop an search in the circumstances you mention refers to "having suspicion that a crime has been committed". Another one was under the Offensive Weapons Act.

[Khandro]

AOG; //And how many times are we to hear that absent black Fathers are to blame, in the age we now live in unfortunately there are a great number of absent Fathers among the whites but mostly their children don't turn to drugs and knife crime. //

If you check the statistics, you will find that, sadly, among white youths as well, low achievement and involvement in crime is also prevalent. Don't you get it?

[Khandro]

http://marripedia.org/effects_of_family_structure_on_crime

[bodeker]

Well I tend to agree with Retrocop , Police in our area have made it plain that they do not have the manpower to deal with things like break-ins, shoplifting, complaints about large groups of people gathering and making a nuisance of themselves and damaging property, basically even if its a serious matter you have to wait, if they do turn up that stops them going to the next problem and because they have to wait for interpreters etc , it stops them getting to the next incident. And they just say sorry don't have the manpower.

[Khandro]

Well at least they appear to have nailed this pair of bar-stewards;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/05/teenager-charged-murder-17-year-oldyousef-makki/

[mushroom25]

//This is coming from the leader of the government who has cut police numbers by 20,000 and slashed youth services, also scrapped the EMA and imposed austerity which removed any opportunity or hope for young people. //

if you're going to plagiarise someone else's point-making post to make a point of your own, the least you could do is afford them due credit. this is a public forum after all.

[agchristie]

This isn't all about police numbers though.If there is no effective strategy to deal with the increasing number of knife crimes for example,then it doesn't matter how many officers are out there.

Sone serious cross-thinking has to take place to devise and implement smarter ways of working and engaging with communities.

Preventative measures of which I don't have the answers but there are people being paid large salaries who should be able to start getting to grips with the issues of the day.

Unhelpfully though,we have a PM who does not agree with Cressida Dick about the link between police numbers and crime.

Hardly,the basis for a decent starting point....

[Peter Pedant]

there is a lot of knife crime around and so we need more police ( Sarie Thornton)

there is a lot of flu around and so we need more doctors ....

has anyone spotted the fallacy? But Sarie would say that wouldnt she?

the data remains - knife crime fell as police numbers fell - early years 2000-5 and then knnife crime rose as police numbers fell
this is a classical data set which leads to a conclusion the two are not related ....

[ smoking kills doctors got the news in 1952 because Doll Hill and Peto the more a doctor smoked the more died - the whole time]

[Peter Pedant]

// Unhelpfully though,we have a PM who does not agree with Cressida Dick about the link between police numbers and crime. //

because there isnt one - - see above
and a "well it MUST do" isnt that helpful ....

[agchristie]

PP,which means effectively that a lamb is in charge of the flock of sheep at the MET....

[grumpy01]

It was commented earlier that capital punishment doesn’t work.Well unfortunately it did for John Charles de Menezies.Who was responsible for that? That’s right the Dick woman.She should never be in post to offer an opinion on anything.

[gulliver1]

Haven't we got an Army of Soldiers Stationed at places in the UK , that could be called upon to assist our hard streched Police Force , when needed?.

[Khandro]

To re-iterate what I said previously; attempting to deal with this purely at street level, - more police, stop & search etc. is top-down thinking. Society has to accept that there is a fundamental problem here in the breakdown of the family, a situation which has within my own lifetime become not only commonplace, but almost the norm in some sections of society.
The fact that many of these kids are black, has nothing at all to do with race.
A boy who has been brought up in a loving family doesn't go out and stick a knife in someone just for the hell of it.

[steg]

This is worth a read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

[Khandro]

^^ It certainly is, steg, - Scotland leads the way again.

I would add one thing, there was a video which I can't find at the moment, of a Black father, a big guy, giving advice to his son - for this boy it was win-win, he not only had the presence of a father he had a wise one as well .

He advises him what do if confronted by some mean nutter with a knife, answer? - run like f... , jump over a wall and keep running until you are out of harms way, nothing at all wrong with that, great advice!

[dannyk13]

Khandro, I don't think any gang member wishing to appear 'cool' will take any notice of that kind of advice.

[Ken4155]

gulliver @ 08:38, "Haven't we got an army of soldiers.........? What powers would you give to the army? Stop and search? Report on sight? Arrest on sight? Our hands were tied tight enough in Ireland during the troubles so i don't see how much effect soldiers on the ground would have.