Editor's Blog3 mins ago
Mi5 Data - Unlawful!
54 Answers
Answers
MI5 ought not be above the law, but the law should allow that which is reasonable in order to protect the realm; and no more: for we don't need a future government (or other with access to the data) oppressing the people. The question is, how anyone is to manage that.
16:46 Tue 11th Jun 2019
"They need to act within the law like everyone else."
Right up to the point that there is an atrocity and it is revealed that the security services had been aware of the perpetrator but unable to act due to legal or political restraints. The sheer volume of data held makes it unlikely it will be used without reasonable grounds.
The intelligence world of the 21st century is far removed from Elizabeth I's spies, or WW1 reconnaissance pilots. It is a dirty fight. Distasteful as it is, I think we need to accept that some laws will be stretched, bent and twisted. For the greater good, I prefer that to the alternative.
Right up to the point that there is an atrocity and it is revealed that the security services had been aware of the perpetrator but unable to act due to legal or political restraints. The sheer volume of data held makes it unlikely it will be used without reasonable grounds.
The intelligence world of the 21st century is far removed from Elizabeth I's spies, or WW1 reconnaissance pilots. It is a dirty fight. Distasteful as it is, I think we need to accept that some laws will be stretched, bent and twisted. For the greater good, I prefer that to the alternative.
" I think we need to accept that some laws will be stretched, bent and twisted. For the greater good, I prefer that to the alternative."
Then maybe, it needs to be part of the law that MI5 are exempt from certain data collection and holding laws. But no, i do not agree the law should be stretched, bent and twisted. The law is the law, that's it. It is for me, so it is for them. They ought to change the law, to suit MI5.
Then maybe, it needs to be part of the law that MI5 are exempt from certain data collection and holding laws. But no, i do not agree the law should be stretched, bent and twisted. The law is the law, that's it. It is for me, so it is for them. They ought to change the law, to suit MI5.
// I assume the data they're talking about is that which is collected in order to pre-empt and foil terrorist activity,//
no actually you can assume the opposite - if it were done for that it would clearly be lawful
what they are talking about more likely is
"the big ear in the sky"
which sucks up all the data,
and that not used or irrelevant is stored
and not erased which is what the law demands
Ah yes but you dont know - is not an argument that gets up and runs
now here is this:
// shades of terrorism here and MI5 MI 6 and everything is very very secret so you wont see our crock-ups. No no secret instead so the terroristen will never know what we are thinking, if any.//
posted last night
Is the poster one Peter Pedant a telepath ? or is it well known that this sort of thing has been going on but no one has been able to prove it?
todays hearing appears to have been an application to have the case heard ..... which will be heard next week
PIIs crashed out as they were used to cover up ministerial naughtiness rather than danger of giving secrets away to the enemy
( ponting and matrix churchill)
no actually you can assume the opposite - if it were done for that it would clearly be lawful
what they are talking about more likely is
"the big ear in the sky"
which sucks up all the data,
and that not used or irrelevant is stored
and not erased which is what the law demands
Ah yes but you dont know - is not an argument that gets up and runs
now here is this:
// shades of terrorism here and MI5 MI 6 and everything is very very secret so you wont see our crock-ups. No no secret instead so the terroristen will never know what we are thinking, if any.//
posted last night
Is the poster one Peter Pedant a telepath ? or is it well known that this sort of thing has been going on but no one has been able to prove it?
todays hearing appears to have been an application to have the case heard ..... which will be heard next week
PIIs crashed out as they were used to cover up ministerial naughtiness rather than danger of giving secrets away to the enemy
( ponting and matrix churchill)
// it needs to be part of the law that MI5 are exempt from certain data collection and holding laws.//
no - it needs to be that they have wider powers for mega data collection but they have to stand by the relevant rules.
there is even an act of parliament which tries to .....
the relevant tribunal shall NOT hear any case or evidence which shows the minister in a bad light
which their lordships declined to enforce on the grounds that judges were there to interpret errors of law
( I think - - - there was quite a lot of judgy ponciness in that judgement)
no - it needs to be that they have wider powers for mega data collection but they have to stand by the relevant rules.
there is even an act of parliament which tries to .....
the relevant tribunal shall NOT hear any case or evidence which shows the minister in a bad light
which their lordships declined to enforce on the grounds that judges were there to interpret errors of law
( I think - - - there was quite a lot of judgy ponciness in that judgement)
oops sorry seems to be part of the same case
first of all can we bring a case?
answer yes
despite
"decisions of the Tribunal (including decisions as to whether they have jurisdiction) shall not be subject to appeal or be liable to be questioned in any court.”
which appears to say 'no'
and their lordships said yes they could
case here
https:/
first of all can we bring a case?
answer yes
despite
"decisions of the Tribunal (including decisions as to whether they have jurisdiction) shall not be subject to appeal or be liable to be questioned in any court.”
which appears to say 'no'
and their lordships said yes they could
case here
https:/
"The Investigatory Powers Commissioner said information gathered under warrants was kept too long and not stored safely."
So the issue is compliance, not the gathering of the data but what is done with it afterward.
They have been pulled up on it, as many Companies are on a daily basis and sorting it. So long as they do for the next inspection (which will happen now they have been caught) then I dont see a problem.
I agree with RR at the top of the thread.
So the issue is compliance, not the gathering of the data but what is done with it afterward.
They have been pulled up on it, as many Companies are on a daily basis and sorting it. So long as they do for the next inspection (which will happen now they have been caught) then I dont see a problem.
I agree with RR at the top of the thread.
I disagree with RR, at the top of the thread, i.e.
"If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about". I've never agreed with that. What gives anyone the right to invade peoples' privacy? Especially the privacy of someone who has done nothing wrong? Would you invite the police (or anyone else) into your home to show them that everything is paid for? You would if they came knocking, but it isn't that situation.
Anyway, I don't believe there is such a thing as privacy any more. Everywhere we go we are being monitored and tracked, even in our own homes. To the police and security services, mobile phones and computers are a godsend for monitoring people. On top of that, people stupidly use them to tell the world all about themselves.
Privacy is a thing of the past.
"If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about". I've never agreed with that. What gives anyone the right to invade peoples' privacy? Especially the privacy of someone who has done nothing wrong? Would you invite the police (or anyone else) into your home to show them that everything is paid for? You would if they came knocking, but it isn't that situation.
Anyway, I don't believe there is such a thing as privacy any more. Everywhere we go we are being monitored and tracked, even in our own homes. To the police and security services, mobile phones and computers are a godsend for monitoring people. On top of that, people stupidly use them to tell the world all about themselves.
Privacy is a thing of the past.
Some people are the architects of their own making where privacy is concerned.
There are so many tools to facilitate broadcasting one's business and some act first and think later.
Even the most simplest of personal data which falls into the wrong hands can prove catastrophic.
It is simplistic, in my view, to state that one should not worry if 'you have nothing to hide'.
There are plenty of unscrupulous people around who seek to exploit basic details such as names and addresses.
Whichever agency has been careless in handling and storing data they should all be subject to the same corrective measures being applied.
There are so many tools to facilitate broadcasting one's business and some act first and think later.
Even the most simplest of personal data which falls into the wrong hands can prove catastrophic.
It is simplistic, in my view, to state that one should not worry if 'you have nothing to hide'.
There are plenty of unscrupulous people around who seek to exploit basic details such as names and addresses.
Whichever agency has been careless in handling and storing data they should all be subject to the same corrective measures being applied.
Well really.. they should be heavily fined for abusing data.
However, you make some good points.
The data MI5 have is not secure. This means many people could hack into the system, especially now it's been publicised that it's not secure.
A very minor negative affect from unlawful data holding . sharing what not is unwarranted or wanted cold calls, letters through the door, and general spam and scams.
However, you make some good points.
The data MI5 have is not secure. This means many people could hack into the system, especially now it's been publicised that it's not secure.
A very minor negative affect from unlawful data holding . sharing what not is unwarranted or wanted cold calls, letters through the door, and general spam and scams.
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