ChatterBank7 mins ago
44 Suspects Arrested Over Sexual Abuse Of Girls In Yorkshire
//Officers have detained 36 men and three women from homes across Kirklees, Bradford and Leeds in the past two weeks.
Five other men were arrested last year in connection with the same investigation.//
https:/
How many more?
Five other men were arrested last year in connection with the same investigation.//
https:/
How many more?
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Yes, I saw that report in my search. We *do* know. v-e's source said that it was in a Home Office Circular. You can search all such circulars and you will find no record of such a passage. You can't just make stuff up and then claim that nobody knows if it's true or not when there is literally no trace other than hearsay.
And the thing is that, as you also rightly point out, you don't even need this to be true in order to criticise the authorities.
Leaving that aside, though, I don't think it works to say that "political correctness" (code for "you can't criticise Muslims") was responsible for letting this slip through either. How does that work when confronting the similar and equally horrific problems that festered in the Catholic Church for decades, or in celebrity circles (Savile, Rolf Harris, etc etc) for just as long? Systematic abuse of young people is a cultural problem that has infected society, and the refusal to take it seriously no matter who the perpetrators were an equally disgusting cultural problem.
This last paragraph directed mainly at Fender rather than you, N. There can be no argument that these arrests are welcome, but also come years too late for the victims.
And the thing is that, as you also rightly point out, you don't even need this to be true in order to criticise the authorities.
Leaving that aside, though, I don't think it works to say that "political correctness" (code for "you can't criticise Muslims") was responsible for letting this slip through either. How does that work when confronting the similar and equally horrific problems that festered in the Catholic Church for decades, or in celebrity circles (Savile, Rolf Harris, etc etc) for just as long? Systematic abuse of young people is a cultural problem that has infected society, and the refusal to take it seriously no matter who the perpetrators were an equally disgusting cultural problem.
This last paragraph directed mainly at Fender rather than you, N. There can be no argument that these arrests are welcome, but also come years too late for the victims.
My statement "...very recently has it been claimed by Nazir Afzal..." and the subsequent quote are not quite "downright lies", Jim.
Maybe Mr Afzal claimed it, but was wrong. Maybe the fact that he claimed it hs been misreported. Nonetheless this 2017 article (if indeed written by him) refers to the same "Home Office circular":
https:/
Maybe Mr Afzal claimed it, but was wrong. Maybe the fact that he claimed it hs been misreported. Nonetheless this 2017 article (if indeed written by him) refers to the same "Home Office circular":
https:/
Professor - I'll attempt to address the final part of the question as I've already made some calculations based on Rotherham (which has a much smaller Pakistani community than the regions mentioned here).
So, 'How many more?' -
Kirklees approx 39,000, Leeds approx 22,000, Bradford approx 68,000 (all totals for their Pakistani communities).
Half the total of 129,000 = 64,000 men and boys (approx).
One third of that figure = 21,333 men in the approx age range.
Between 18% and 25% of that figure = 3,840 to 5,333.
It could be many, many more, I always underplayed the data.
I have no idea what poiny uou are making here - would you care to elaborate please. Also, what is the point of underplaying data - sureloy data is data, you either quote it or you donèt, that makes no sense.
So, 'How many more?' -
Kirklees approx 39,000, Leeds approx 22,000, Bradford approx 68,000 (all totals for their Pakistani communities).
Half the total of 129,000 = 64,000 men and boys (approx).
One third of that figure = 21,333 men in the approx age range.
Between 18% and 25% of that figure = 3,840 to 5,333.
It could be many, many more, I always underplayed the data.
I have no idea what poiny uou are making here - would you care to elaborate please. Also, what is the point of underplaying data - sureloy data is data, you either quote it or you donèt, that makes no sense.
Prosecutions for this kind of abuse affect a tiny minority of perpetrators, and that's not good enough. And this is the only 'tiny minority' that's real, the minority of perpetrators from the Pakistani community is rather large.
I took the trouble to analyse the available data because I was sick of hearing that the problem was always down to 'a tiny minority...'. At least the media isn't peddling that nonsense so much these days.
I underplayed the data by always rounding figures down, rather than up. I underplayed the level of abuse I believe human biology is capable of. I underplayed the numbers of incidents that the victims reported, believing there might be a degree of exaggeration (I feel badly about that, because there are already enough people who don't believe them as it is). I underplayed the data to make my findings bulletproof. I wish others cared enough to crunch the numbers, I'd be very interested to see the kind of percentages they come up with.
I took the trouble to analyse the available data because I was sick of hearing that the problem was always down to 'a tiny minority...'. At least the media isn't peddling that nonsense so much these days.
I underplayed the data by always rounding figures down, rather than up. I underplayed the level of abuse I believe human biology is capable of. I underplayed the numbers of incidents that the victims reported, believing there might be a degree of exaggeration (I feel badly about that, because there are already enough people who don't believe them as it is). I underplayed the data to make my findings bulletproof. I wish others cared enough to crunch the numbers, I'd be very interested to see the kind of percentages they come up with.
//I took the trouble to analyse the available data because I was sick of hearing that the problem was always down to 'a tiny minority...'//
Yes, indeed, Professor Maisie. You might want to apply you're technique to Rotherham specifically. Some basic demographics:
https:/
...which has this summary:
"Rotherham had 236,438 (91.9%) White British and 20,842 (8.1%) Black and Minority Ethnic (BME) residents in the 2011 Census.
The largest BME community is Pakistani & Kashmiri who numbered 7,912 in 2011 or 3.1% of the population.
The second largest BME group is Other White with 3,418 people, the largest community within this being Slovak and Czech Roma.
Rotherham's BME population is relatively low compared with the national average of 20.2%.
The 2011 Census showed 66.5% of the population as Christian, 3.7% were Muslim and 0.7% had another religion and 22.5% had no religion."
Andrew Norfolk's investigations (reported in the Times) revealed 1,400 victims known about at the time and the names of over a hundred men known to the police who appeared to be taking advantage of the "informed sexual decisions" of twelve-year old girls.
The number of victims and suspected perpetrators iis about the same to that of Telford which has a similar demographic. That scandal came out last year, if anybody remembers, but the local police (or the CPS) decided not to prosecute.
Yes, indeed, Professor Maisie. You might want to apply you're technique to Rotherham specifically. Some basic demographics:
https:/
...which has this summary:
"Rotherham had 236,438 (91.9%) White British and 20,842 (8.1%) Black and Minority Ethnic (BME) residents in the 2011 Census.
The largest BME community is Pakistani & Kashmiri who numbered 7,912 in 2011 or 3.1% of the population.
The second largest BME group is Other White with 3,418 people, the largest community within this being Slovak and Czech Roma.
Rotherham's BME population is relatively low compared with the national average of 20.2%.
The 2011 Census showed 66.5% of the population as Christian, 3.7% were Muslim and 0.7% had another religion and 22.5% had no religion."
Andrew Norfolk's investigations (reported in the Times) revealed 1,400 victims known about at the time and the names of over a hundred men known to the police who appeared to be taking advantage of the "informed sexual decisions" of twelve-year old girls.
The number of victims and suspected perpetrators iis about the same to that of Telford which has a similar demographic. That scandal came out last year, if anybody remembers, but the local police (or the CPS) decided not to prosecute.
Yes, Vetuste_Ennemi - 1,400 victims and 100 abusers. Something's wrong there I'm sure.
Rotherham has only a very slightly bigger Pakistani community in percentage terms, and the number of victims there was upped from 1,400 to 1,900 before they managed to reduce it to the now 'accepted' figure of 1,700 (I put that in quotes because journalists still quote the 1,400 figure more often than not).
Rotherham has only a very slightly bigger Pakistani community in percentage terms, and the number of victims there was upped from 1,400 to 1,900 before they managed to reduce it to the now 'accepted' figure of 1,700 (I put that in quotes because journalists still quote the 1,400 figure more often than not).
Anyone who has worked in the public services in the last twenty years will testify to the breadth of inaction because of pc.
A car was vandalised in the school car park, the Deputy Head, management speak personified, was going to tear the culprit a new whatsit until he found out who the culprit was and then it was all softly softly, don't rock the boat, don't upset the 'community'.
I would love to see a break down of knife crime along 'community' lines.
A car was vandalised in the school car park, the Deputy Head, management speak personified, was going to tear the culprit a new whatsit until he found out who the culprit was and then it was all softly softly, don't rock the boat, don't upset the 'community'.
I would love to see a break down of knife crime along 'community' lines.
The official figure is conservative anyway, because there are significantly more members of that community who don't 'officially' exist - and I'm not even counting them. But I am projecting 3.5% as a final percentage (not what's shown in the 2011 census). However, it's a lower percentage than 3.1% at the outset - the abuse took place over many years.
I'd happily accept whatever figure you arrive at if you ever get around to doing the research - I'm sure you're well qualified to do the maths.
I'd happily accept whatever figure you arrive at if you ever get around to doing the research - I'm sure you're well qualified to do the maths.
// Jim at 14:13, I was going to respond to your post but apart from the bit where you say you decided against posting the link I found (can't think why) ... //
Quite simply because further digging showed that the report on Radio 4 has been since tested by FoI requests made to both the Home Office and to the Metropolitan Police, and denied in both cases. I can't say why Radio 4 (or the article v-e mentions) both make the same claim, but it's simply unsubstantiated.
As to meeting myself coming back -- sigh... No. I am denying that the specific letter v-e mentions was ever written, because it wasn't.
Quite simply because further digging showed that the report on Radio 4 has been since tested by FoI requests made to both the Home Office and to the Metropolitan Police, and denied in both cases. I can't say why Radio 4 (or the article v-e mentions) both make the same claim, but it's simply unsubstantiated.
As to meeting myself coming back -- sigh... No. I am denying that the specific letter v-e mentions was ever written, because it wasn't.
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