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TTT,
The Spanish veto Scotland’s membership is based on their objection to Kosovo as members. But the situation is not comparable.
If Scotland, NI or even Wales left the UK lawfully, then Spain and the rest of the UK would recognise them as a new State.
Spain and other countries do not recognise Kosovo as a State, which is why it objects to them as EU members.
The Spanish have already said they would not veto Scotland.
// Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo insisted his country would not raise any objection to European Union recognition - if Scottish independence was accepted by Westminster.
The Spanish veto Scotland’s membership is based on their objection to Kosovo as members. But the situation is not comparable.
If Scotland, NI or even Wales left the UK lawfully, then Spain and the rest of the UK would recognise them as a new State.
Spain and other countries do not recognise Kosovo as a State, which is why it objects to them as EU members.
The Spanish have already said they would not veto Scotland.
// Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo insisted his country would not raise any objection to European Union recognition - if Scottish independence was accepted by Westminster.
//Anyhow, the EU are not going to reject any former UK countries who wish to join. Again your wishful thinking is clouding your judgement.//
I believe any thinking that is wishful is entirely yours. Let’s leave aside potential objections from France and/or Spain. There are economic criteria that have to be met before membership is agreed. One of them is that members must not have an annual deficit of more than 3%. At present Scotland’s deficit accounts for more than 50% of the entire UK’s and stands at more than 7%. It is twice as high as the next worse in the EU. The SNP suggests that it will reduce its deficit after independence by cutting expenditure on defence. This will be nowhere near enough and will anyway mean that Scotland (assuming it wants to remain a member of NATO) will jeopardise that membership. The notion that an independent Scotland will simply be waved in as a member of the EU is fanciful. As with many things, Scotland hangs on to the coat tails of the UK and its membership of the EU comes about solely because of that.
But that does not really concern me. If Scotland gains its independence and is allowed to join the EU then good luck to both of them. Scotland may find that the EU’s munificence (especially when its funds are depleted by about £12bn pa when the UK stops paying in) may not be quite so attractive as is the UK’s. Around £2,000 per Scottish inhabitant of principally English taxpayers dosh is shovelled up the M6 every year. The idea that the UK should think again about Brexit because of the threat that this might end makes my sides ache with laughter.
I believe any thinking that is wishful is entirely yours. Let’s leave aside potential objections from France and/or Spain. There are economic criteria that have to be met before membership is agreed. One of them is that members must not have an annual deficit of more than 3%. At present Scotland’s deficit accounts for more than 50% of the entire UK’s and stands at more than 7%. It is twice as high as the next worse in the EU. The SNP suggests that it will reduce its deficit after independence by cutting expenditure on defence. This will be nowhere near enough and will anyway mean that Scotland (assuming it wants to remain a member of NATO) will jeopardise that membership. The notion that an independent Scotland will simply be waved in as a member of the EU is fanciful. As with many things, Scotland hangs on to the coat tails of the UK and its membership of the EU comes about solely because of that.
But that does not really concern me. If Scotland gains its independence and is allowed to join the EU then good luck to both of them. Scotland may find that the EU’s munificence (especially when its funds are depleted by about £12bn pa when the UK stops paying in) may not be quite so attractive as is the UK’s. Around £2,000 per Scottish inhabitant of principally English taxpayers dosh is shovelled up the M6 every year. The idea that the UK should think again about Brexit because of the threat that this might end makes my sides ache with laughter.
I wonder. Is Boris far cleverer than we even thought. He knows his classics and will certainly have studied some of the plots and machinations that were chronicled there. Could this all be a bear trap that Boris is setting for the Remainiacs and the marxist labour movement? Perhaps what he is hoping is that he can finally goad them into forcing a vote of no confidence. A vote that he would happily lose thereby allowing him to call a G.E. on the 17th Oct. without being held responsible, or culpable for it. Bingo, no deal Brexit as the clock runs down and a probable Tory win if the polls are correct.
//Suddenly they recognise the word. Like rabbits caught in headlights.//
Not only that Naomi, but notice how the very people who have, for decades, been viciously opposed to the monarchy having any input or personal views, concerning our democratic processes are now demanding that Her Majesty does those very things and refuses the recommendation of her Prime Minister.
Not only that Naomi, but notice how the very people who have, for decades, been viciously opposed to the monarchy having any input or personal views, concerning our democratic processes are now demanding that Her Majesty does those very things and refuses the recommendation of her Prime Minister.
Togo
That is exactly what I have been saying.
A Coup would be perceived as treachery and the voters would punish the culprits in a shortly to be held thereafter General Election. The Tories would win, Johnson would be again PM, probably with a better majority, and brexit if the Coup had averted it, would be reset.
Corbyn would be better spending his time getting his shambles of a party into some sort of shape that they might not get totally humiliated.
A VONC does look like a set trap. Labour should avoid that route at all costs.
But its leaders are useless so they probably would attempt that folly.
Proroguing also looks a trap to get the Remainers to make that error.
That is exactly what I have been saying.
A Coup would be perceived as treachery and the voters would punish the culprits in a shortly to be held thereafter General Election. The Tories would win, Johnson would be again PM, probably with a better majority, and brexit if the Coup had averted it, would be reset.
Corbyn would be better spending his time getting his shambles of a party into some sort of shape that they might not get totally humiliated.
A VONC does look like a set trap. Labour should avoid that route at all costs.
But its leaders are useless so they probably would attempt that folly.
Proroguing also looks a trap to get the Remainers to make that error.
//The Spanish have already said they would not veto Scotland.//
Then Boris needs to have a quiet word in the shell like of Senor Sanchez and point out that he is more than willing to support independence for the Catalans in that case. That will help him focus on tidying up his own back yard and stop snooping over the fence onto his neighbour's patio.
Then Boris needs to have a quiet word in the shell like of Senor Sanchez and point out that he is more than willing to support independence for the Catalans in that case. That will help him focus on tidying up his own back yard and stop snooping over the fence onto his neighbour's patio.
"Not only that Naomi, but notice how the very people who have, for decades, been viciously opposed to the monarchy having any input or personal views, concerning our democratic processes are now demanding that Her Majesty does those very things and refuses the recommendation of her Prime Minister."
In fairness we are only in the desperate situation of needing a monarch to agree to a PMs request to help restore democracy because the system is flawed and hasn't made the required changes such that the parliament can't go against the wishes of the people in the first place, and thus still requires arbitration of some sort. Properly written constitutions/political systems ought to prevent this situation in the first place, or have it settled without recourse to outdated monarchy government layers should it ever occur. Having a monarchy both creates and fulfils a rare need that ought not be there, and wouldn't be if the system was sorted.
In fairness we are only in the desperate situation of needing a monarch to agree to a PMs request to help restore democracy because the system is flawed and hasn't made the required changes such that the parliament can't go against the wishes of the people in the first place, and thus still requires arbitration of some sort. Properly written constitutions/political systems ought to prevent this situation in the first place, or have it settled without recourse to outdated monarchy government layers should it ever occur. Having a monarchy both creates and fulfils a rare need that ought not be there, and wouldn't be if the system was sorted.
I read earlier that Jacob Rees Mogg (as Lord and President of the Privy Council) was on his way to Balmoral to meet with Her Majesty. He will love that, although Her Majesty may think that he is a bit posh. Remember that before he was even elected as MP for NE Somerset, he vowed that his aim was to get us out of the EU. Will he not be satisfied to be instrumental in the end game that achieves just that.
Geezer....first past the post would resolve most of the issues that Brexit has brought into focus. Before Brexit and the 3 years of parliament actively attempting to overturn a democratic vote, no one; at least not many members of the public; really looked hard at the workings of the HoC. Westminster did its thing, and although we sometime had misgivings and doubts , we just shrugged and carried on. Brexit has brought these issues into sharp focus and the public is realising that the establishment were happy with these arrangements. It allowed them to cut covert deals and play mystery mole at our expense. Issues that should have been highlighted and explored for resolutions in the public domain were left alone because it suited the professional politicians and the civil servants. They could manipulate unimpeded. What they are ignoring at their peril is that it is not parliament or the monarchy that is sovereign.......but us the people. We are the sovereign entity in this whole tableau. We are going to have to remind them of this very soon.
Oh dear Boris has rattled their cages alright. We now have David Lammy MP promising to lead civil disobedience and Tom Brake MP saying he will respond to HM The Queen’s proroguement of Parliament with his iron fist. Do not both statements go against their Oaths of Allegiance to the Queen? They should be suspended from Parliament and investigated for inciting violence.
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