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Like A Ship Without A Rudd-Er
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Johnson didn't give Parliament much of a chance either. He *knew* that they would block him on No Deal if he were insistent upon it. He decided, presumably with the backing of advisers, to meet that threat by trying to shut Parliament out of the debate -- rather than the sensible thing, which would have been to work with them. He cannot have been surprised when Parliament pushed back, and indeed was almost certainly counting on it. Although he clearly underestimated the scale, and miscalculated the likelihood of opposition parties supporting an election on his timetable.
On the subject of No Deal, the entire approach of "you have to be prepared to walk away" is flawed for another reason. In a negotiation, if you want to persuade your opposite party to make concessions, then they have to believe that you'll accept a deal one those concessions have been made. Otherwise, why waste the point in making them?
If you want to reach a deal with someone, you have to convince them that you will shake hands under at least some circumstances.
On the subject of No Deal, the entire approach of "you have to be prepared to walk away" is flawed for another reason. In a negotiation, if you want to persuade your opposite party to make concessions, then they have to believe that you'll accept a deal one those concessions have been made. Otherwise, why waste the point in making them?
If you want to reach a deal with someone, you have to convince them that you will shake hands under at least some circumstances.
Amber Rudd has chosen her path. She’s where she belongs – with the rest of the rats. I sincerely hope that the whole duplicitous, disloyal bunch of them are waving goodbye to their previously lucrative careers.
//If you want to reach a deal with someone, you have to convince them that you will shake hands under at least some circumstances.//
An insurmountable task when that someone says they’ve finished negotiating. And now the new law says that Boris must ask for an extension. To what purpose?
Surprise, surprise. Boris is blocked in every direction. The deal on offer has been rejected several times so that’s a ‘no go’; the EU won’t negotiate further; he has been prevented from calling an election, and parliament refuses - to what should be its eternal shame – to deliver upon the result of a democratic referendum by allowing a ‘No Deal’. I think resignation will be his only option. And then …. what?
//If you want to reach a deal with someone, you have to convince them that you will shake hands under at least some circumstances.//
An insurmountable task when that someone says they’ve finished negotiating. And now the new law says that Boris must ask for an extension. To what purpose?
Surprise, surprise. Boris is blocked in every direction. The deal on offer has been rejected several times so that’s a ‘no go’; the EU won’t negotiate further; he has been prevented from calling an election, and parliament refuses - to what should be its eternal shame – to deliver upon the result of a democratic referendum by allowing a ‘No Deal’. I think resignation will be his only option. And then …. what?
Rats is, perhaps, appropriate, because the ship is sinking fast.
I really had to work hard to come up with that one.
No, but, seriously. "Rats"? Do you want a solution to this problem or not? Start working with people who were trying to find a solution to Brexit. Amber Rudd was, until this evening, prepared to work with and support Johnson, and in some people's eyes that was already three months too long.
If Johnson wants a solution to this -- if any Brexit supporter wants to find a solution to this -- they need to stop making enemies at every opportunity, and start making allies.
I really had to work hard to come up with that one.
No, but, seriously. "Rats"? Do you want a solution to this problem or not? Start working with people who were trying to find a solution to Brexit. Amber Rudd was, until this evening, prepared to work with and support Johnson, and in some people's eyes that was already three months too long.
If Johnson wants a solution to this -- if any Brexit supporter wants to find a solution to this -- they need to stop making enemies at every opportunity, and start making allies.
Jim, you were slow on the uptake there.
Yes, I want a solution to this problem. I want the government and parliament to do what it should have done in the first place. Respect the result of the referendum as it promised - and implement that result with no ifs and buts - as was promised. I'm sick is listening to lies.
Yes, I want a solution to this problem. I want the government and parliament to do what it should have done in the first place. Respect the result of the referendum as it promised - and implement that result with no ifs and buts - as was promised. I'm sick is listening to lies.
//If you want to reach a deal with someone, you have to convince them that you will shake hands under at least some circumstances.//
We've done this once or twice, Jim. That might be true of normal negotiations. These are not normal negotiations. The position the UK is in clearly demonstrates that your hypothesis is flawed. The EU knows that the UK Parliament will not countenance No Deal. It therefore has no need whatsoever to modify the horrendous deal it has offered. Why should they? It's "take it or leave it". They know we won't take it, they know we cannot leave without it and they know that leaving with it is not leaving at all anyway. They simply have to sit back and watch the ridiculous nonsense that is now being played out in Westminster (whilst trousering £1bn for each month's delay).
Your philosophy means we cannot leave at all.
We've done this once or twice, Jim. That might be true of normal negotiations. These are not normal negotiations. The position the UK is in clearly demonstrates that your hypothesis is flawed. The EU knows that the UK Parliament will not countenance No Deal. It therefore has no need whatsoever to modify the horrendous deal it has offered. Why should they? It's "take it or leave it". They know we won't take it, they know we cannot leave without it and they know that leaving with it is not leaving at all anyway. They simply have to sit back and watch the ridiculous nonsense that is now being played out in Westminster (whilst trousering £1bn for each month's delay).
Your philosophy means we cannot leave at all.
I would have been faster but I was watching a video for 10 minutes before I noticed your post.
The Withdrawal Agreement would have meant that we left. It still can mean that. Just because it takes longer than you'd like doesn't mean it isn't leaving.
So, no -- my philosophy doesn't mean that we'd leave at all. But, even if it did, it's not like the philosophy of trying to purge everybody in sight who thinks that No Deal exit is somehow a mistake -- for some unfathomable reason that may be to do with all the mountains of evidence -- has worked well either.
Theresa May's big mistake was to make an enemy of Parliament. It seems that Johnson has learned from her mistake and decided to waste no time in doing to exact same thing.
The Withdrawal Agreement would have meant that we left. It still can mean that. Just because it takes longer than you'd like doesn't mean it isn't leaving.
So, no -- my philosophy doesn't mean that we'd leave at all. But, even if it did, it's not like the philosophy of trying to purge everybody in sight who thinks that No Deal exit is somehow a mistake -- for some unfathomable reason that may be to do with all the mountains of evidence -- has worked well either.
Theresa May's big mistake was to make an enemy of Parliament. It seems that Johnson has learned from her mistake and decided to waste no time in doing to exact same thing.
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