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Licensing Laws.
I know they are in the process of being relaxed.
However my husband works away - got of his flight - picked up hire car and went Asda for some groceries and booze.He was in Q as they announced at 9.50pm anyone wishing to purchase alcohol to make their way to till.He was already there so didnt bother himself.When it was his turn the checkout girl announced she was shutting down.He moved to next till and when it was his turn again it was one minute past 10 and the till is programmed not to scan alcohol.He went ape - spoke to manger and said he only wanted a can of beer when he got home.(He cant drink whilst away)
Point being - this is draconian - IMO.Also this cant buy alcohol until 12.30 on Sun - ie until the Churchy people have finished worshipping is ridiculous.
Smacks of Big Brother and forcing other peoples antiquated opinions down your throat.(Holier than thou).What do others think?Bearing in mind you can buy fags rolls milk etc.
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I'd agree. Although the law exists, there has to be an element of common sense applied here. Since your husband was in the queue, he should have been served with his beer - surely there must be an over-ride for the manager's discretion?
I think he was harshly treated on this occasion.
I am sure that the liscences for supermarkets will be relaxed soon, because they have not ketp pace with modern trading practices.
This is a parallel argument to my views on the extention of pub liscening - which continues a few places down this thread.
Oneeyedvic - I think the point Buddy is making is that her husband was angry and frustrated at the archane law, and the rigidity with which it was enforced, rather than the fact that he was denied his reasonable request for a can of beer after a hard week.
And again I can see where he's coming from.
andy, I am totally confused by your stance in this thread since it appears diametrically opposed to your stance in the previous thread.
Here you advocate the relaxation of licensing laws as a good move whilst in the previous thread you say no good will come of it (or is this only in the case of public houses?).
BTW why should the manager of a supermarket break the law to serve a customer? It was not reasonable to expect to be served alcohol outside of the licensed hours.
Here you advocate the relaxation of licensing laws as a good move whilst in the previous thread you say no good will come of it (or is this only in the case of public houses?).
BTW why should the manager of a supermarket break the law to serve a customer? It was not reasonable to expect to be served alcohol outside of the licensed hours.
i was gonna say the same, my husband travels frequently, and i look forwad to his return so much that i have everything he needs indoors upon his return...i dont think it was the law that made your o h lose it, it could have been anything from not finding a carpark space to the supermarket not having the right brand; the point is, supermarket shopping is the last thing you wanna do when you step off the plane...you wanna go home and relax! I didn't say that though as I thought it a bit irrelevent to the ?
I expect the manager did not break the rule of selling beer after the licensing hours because 1) it is illegal, even for a supermarket, 2) the tills will log what has been sold and at what time and who was managing at the time, perhaps he felt it was moer than his jobsworth (just as your husband knows its more than his jobsworth to drink whilst ont he job) 3) if he breaks it for 1 min past, then he could break it for 10 minutes past, lets hang it all and break it for 5 hours past....4) if he does it for one customer, he has to do it for all, and that would lead nowhere......Rules are rules, and some rues are black and white to make them easier to adhere too.
I do, however, fully sympathise with the point that the cashier closed her till with neither a by or leave. This is extremely infuriating, off a plane or not...Tesco used to have a terrible rep for this. once I got a month's worth of shopping on the belt with some more in the trolley, and when it got to me she closed and I had to put it all back in the trolley, screaming kids and all. Outrageous. Now, tesco put a sign at the end of the belt warning people that they will close after the costumer they are serving, maybe you should suggest they do the same in the store where you shop.....
I hope your hubby had a safe trip, and that it was a success.
I expect the manager did not break the rule of selling beer after the licensing hours because 1) it is illegal, even for a supermarket, 2) the tills will log what has been sold and at what time and who was managing at the time, perhaps he felt it was moer than his jobsworth (just as your husband knows its more than his jobsworth to drink whilst ont he job) 3) if he breaks it for 1 min past, then he could break it for 10 minutes past, lets hang it all and break it for 5 hours past....4) if he does it for one customer, he has to do it for all, and that would lead nowhere......Rules are rules, and some rues are black and white to make them easier to adhere too.
I do, however, fully sympathise with the point that the cashier closed her till with neither a by or leave. This is extremely infuriating, off a plane or not...Tesco used to have a terrible rep for this. once I got a month's worth of shopping on the belt with some more in the trolley, and when it got to me she closed and I had to put it all back in the trolley, screaming kids and all. Outrageous. Now, tesco put a sign at the end of the belt warning people that they will close after the costumer they are serving, maybe you should suggest they do the same in the store where you shop.....
I hope your hubby had a safe trip, and that it was a success.
Hi kempie actually, as I pointed out, the arguments are parallel, rather than diametrically opposed.
My approach to the previous argument is to take issue with the ridiculous notion that extended liscening hours will turn Britain into a European cafe society - whcih, as I explained, is simply farcial, wishful thinking. English people drink to get drunk, and the idea that clubs and pubs will stagger closing hours is equally nonsensical. Who will loose trade to a rival by closing earlier?
Anyway, this issue is not about the purchase of alcohol, it's about the fact that this gentleman was unable to make his purchase because one checkout operator closed without warning, and another wouln't serve (or indeed couln't serve) past the alloted time.
My point is not that the manager should break the licensing law, but that he should have mployed a little customer care on the basis that this customer was not prevented from purchasing alcohol because of the law, but because he was obliged to move checkouts because the one at which he was queuing shut without warning - that is not the law, that's the store policy, and that is why the manager shouls have used his discretion on this one occasion.
If it be that he is prevented from doing so, fair enough, Buddy did not advise, but my point is that her husband was frustrated, not by has lack of alcohol, but by bad customer practice, and the draconian laws that exist for supermarket supplies of alcohol.
This is a totally separate issue from the rights and wrongs of extended drinking times - the other thread in which i am contributing - this is about shopping, and customer service - the fact that the gentleman was buying beer is not the main issue of his complaint.
Intersting to know what are classed as arcane laws:
Should it be possible to sleep with a girl aged 15 and 364 days? After all, one more day won't really matter.
Should any one be let off for driving at 35mph in a 30 zone? After all, if their car has ABS (and they know how to brake correctly), their stoping distances are far better than the highway code implies.
Point is that (unfortunately) the last serving time is 10.00 ( I am unsure as to what day this was, as I was under the impression that supermarkets could serve alcohol until 11pm). He got to the cashier at past the time. He was not served.
Since when has good customer service for a supermarket been to break the law?
Hello oneyedvic, I don't think your comparions hold water.
I didn't suggest that the customer should be served past the legal time, I suggested that he was in the queue to buy his beer within the prescribed time, but he was prevented from doing so, not by the law, but by the fact that he was prevented from making his purcahse because of the supermarket policy to shut down checkouts witrhout prior warning.
That was the bad customer service, that is why I suggested management discretion - if available. That has no comparison to under-age sex, or speeding, the comparisons simply do not work.
I simply suggest that customers who are queuing within the time limit, who are prevented from purchase because of unanounced withdrawal of checkout facilities. should be allowed to complete their purchase. If it be that the tills are time-locked, then that is an unsurmountable issue, but I still maintain that the supermarket policy is at the heart of this issue, and I think good customer relations allow for the fact that the customer was in time, and he lost his right to purchase through no fault of his own.
The thing about these laws that annoy me, is that if your hubby had bought the booze at 3pm, there'd have been nothing stopping him drinking it at 10:10 - so why the fuss!?!
in fact, if I went to the supermarket tomorrow at 12noon and bought 24 cans of beer and drank one an hour until I'd run out (at home) I wouldn't be breaking the law - but ARRRGGHHH! It's 24 hour drinking!!! Panic - the nation will descend into chaos!
Oh no, hang on - we're already perfectly entitled to drink at any hour of the day, those opposed to the government's proposals* are just being paranoid and ridiculous.
DISCLAIMER:
*opposed in principal, rather than those objecting to some of the finer points! :-)
If you had a �1 for every half witted law in this country buddy you would have more money than the queen.
I had a similar experience in a supermarket the other day I did my shopping early to avoid queues and got to the checkout at 7.55am and had to stand there 5 mins because they cant sell alcohol until 8am.
I had a similar experience in a supermarket the other day I did my shopping early to avoid queues and got to the checkout at 7.55am and had to stand there 5 mins because they cant sell alcohol until 8am.
So Andy, do you think if in a pub and its busy, they should carry on serving since you were in the queue? I mean, its not your fault that they are busy is it?
Everyone seems to see laws as obstructive, but it really is a question of drawing the line somewhere (hence my comparissons to under age sex and speeding). We have a law and it is enforced correctly. Still fail to see a problem here.
IMHO if you can't either be organised or wait until 12.30pm on a Sunday to buy your alcohol, you probably shouldn't be of an age where you can buy it.
Just curious - if you turned up at a shop at 7.55am and it didn't open until 8.00am would you expect it to open for you?
Before now I have arrived at a checkout to be told that the store was closed and they could not help me. When I pointed out that unless they checked me out, I would stay exactly where I was and any attempt to remove me from the store would result in court action. I tell them that I will put some money down and walk out of the store with the goods. I then explain that, if they stopped me, the police would have to be called and very few of them would be home by midnight as they would have to make statements to the police and conviction for theft would not succeed in these circumstances. Guess what, they served me!! As a lawyer, I know that they do not actually have to sell you anything they do not want to. They are not offering to sell items to you - it is the customer who offers to buy and its up to the store to accept the offer, so creating the contract. If they choose not to accept your offer to buy, there is no contract they do not have to sell. It's useful, in these circumstances, to have some frozen food in your trolley as the longer it stays out, the more unsellable it becomes and cannot be put back on the shelf to sell again when they put all your shopping back..
On to the new licensing laws and you will be pleased to hear that all licensing authorities (Councils) have been told that the normal situation should be that alcohol can be sold whenever the store is open, even if this is for 24 hours. This does, of course, only happen if the store itself has actually applied for the right to do this. Most of the full 24 hour licences have been issued to supermarkets. However, there is no compulsion on any licensee to actually open during the extended times that have been granted so, when the law changes next Thursday, don't think that you can buy booze all night in every pub.
Most lawyers are very pedantic when standards of service fall below their very proper standards. I'm old enough to remember when shops would take your money regardless of whether the tills were working. Now it seems that the staff would be hard pressed to add up the cost of two items without electronic help. Having a knowledge of the law helps you to bluff your way through the thicker individuals in society knowing that you stand no chance of actually being charged with anything or even being arrested. When you wear a suit and tie and talk like you know what you are talking about, a business card helps, you can get away with anything!!
JB, it was a bottle of wine to go with dinner that night but what idiot comes up with a law that says it is illegal to buy booze at 7.55 but it's ok at 8am?
This supermarket recently started opening all night so you can do your shopping at 3am but you have to go back after 8am for your bottle of wine.
This supermarket recently started opening all night so you can do your shopping at 3am but you have to go back after 8am for your bottle of wine.
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