Should The Senior Officers Of The London Fire Brigade Be Prosecuted?

[anotheoldgit]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-brigade-report-public-inquiry-prosecution-a9177686.html

[spathiphyllum]

[Zacs-Master]

AOG, by ' a different opinion' do you mean 'completely wrong and demonstrably so'?

'what was your particular war effort?' I wasn't born. Are you going to judge me for that?

[Mamyalynne]

A thread discussing the aftermath of a dreadful human tragedy turns into a spat - not nice.

A lot of good points have been made and of course ways to deal with these incidents will be reviewed in the light of what happened.

I don't feel individual prosecutions are the way to go.

[spathiphyllum]

stay put

[Zacs-Master]

Hey Spath, that's another BBC link. You know the company whom you believe to be biased.

[spathiphyllum]

"You know the company whom you believe to be biased."

Too many conspiracy's about me. I've never said the BBC is bias.

[ABSpareEditor]

• Treat others as you would like to be treated and respect other people’s opinions. Discussions can get passionate but users should moderate their language and refrain from personal attacks and profanity. We encourage lively debate but name calling, harassment or abuse will not be tolerated.

[Rockrose]

I haven't read through all the responses properly but a couple stick out - Spath - in some circumstances it is safer for the residents to stay put whilst the FS discovered what they were doing.
That is standard practice as it is in our government office in the event of fire or bomb warnings - mass panic can make things worse.

[anotheoldgit]

Zacs Master

/// I wasn't born. Are you going to judge me for that? ///

Then don't go on about things you know nothing about, but then it is no use me telling you that, because you always do.

[Zacs-Master]

We've had this debate before, AOG. Just because someone wasn't alive doesn't mean they don't know anything about it. Do you remember?

[Rockrose]

Following your rules AOG would mean no historians, for example now one could discuss Henry VIII because they were not alive at that time.

[mushroom25]

https://imgur.com/r/funny/b9bG0cD

[New Judge]

//I can't imagine there being a fire going on around a building and people telling someone to stay put. Makes zero sense whatever information they were given.

If a building is on fire, you get out. Basic knowledge.//

//Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that people should be evacuated.//

Yes spathi, basic knowledge which you have but which fire services across the country (and in the wider world) sadly lack. Not for the first time you speak before engaging brain or doing some research. The idea of staying put in a building such as Grenfell is that the buildings are (or should be) designed to contain the fire in a small area. It’s called “compartmentalisation”. Sadly the theory didn’t work in Grenfell because of the cladding. Research says that it is safer for people to stay put as the risk of injury or death is (normally) greater if they don’t.

//That's what happens when you blindly follow authoritarian figures.

Always do what you personally think is best.//

What is it that you have with “authoritarian figures”? It wasn’t authoritarian figures that told the LFB to adopt the “stay put” strategy. It was their working practices based on experience and research. By the time it was realised that the situation did not fit that model (because of the combustible cladding) the situation had already deteriorated seriously. It’s easy to sit back and say “this should have been done” and “that shouldn’t have happened”. It happens all the time. Scribes sit in the comfort of a cosy office many months later and pontificate on how things should have been done without having the first clue about the problems faced at the time. This idea of seeking prosecutions against people who simply made a wrong decision in the heat (pardon the pun, no joke intended – particularly in this case) of the moment is ridiculous. All people make bad decisions (except those that shy away from making any) but it doesn’t make them criminals when those decisions lead to tragedy.

//I've actually had training on such topics, so no it's not nonsense. It's common sense. Something that lacks here//

Yes please do elaborate so that we can all learn. How much training have you had in extinguishing major fires in and rescuing people from blazing twenty story blocks of flats?

The rest of your ramblings are utter drivel hardly worth a response. And it seems I’m not the only one with that opinion:

//This thread though does at least illustrate how easy it is for normal, rational people to be pushed to breaking point by the hard of thinking and their inability/unwillingness to think things through before spewing their drivel.//

[Spicerack]

Spath is entitled to his opinions, as is everyone else.
Don't know should anyone be prosecuted but they shouldn't be put on a pedestal above criticism either.
If they were partly to blame, it should be acknowledged and 'lessons should be learned' yada, yada.

[naomi24]

I haven’t read all the answers but I was listening to a fireman on the radio yesterday who said that rather than direct people into the danger of smoke-filled stair wells, they are told to stay put. Under normal circumstances that is sensible advice. Sadly, at that time, the fire crews didn’t realise that this wasn't normal circumstances. How could they? A tragedy in more ways than one.

[Ken4155]

Spath, your video of firefighters on their way to the fire proves absolutely nothing. It is a video of what one unit could see on their way to the fire and it may have been one of the later ones to arrive. Have you no videos of the other 69 which were sent and the scene that met them.

[anotheoldgit]

It is the tower residents who happen to be mainly ethnic minorities and who have lost many of their dear loved ones, who are asking for senior officers to be sacked, are they wrong also?

[naomi24]

Yes.^

[Ken4155]

While their grief and their need to lay the blame is understandable, it doesn't make them right, AOG.