Is A Curtailment Of Civil Liberties A Price Worth Paying?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52401763
I'm not normally a NTH ; NTF person, in this case I think contact apps are a price worth paying. We must be careful though that this does not represent the thin edge of the wedge.

[jim360]

NTH and NTF standing for...?

[jno]

nothing to hide nothing to fear.

Governments seldom give up powers of surveillance once they've acquired them. One major exception was when the government wanted to extend the use of ID cards after WW2 and the British public were dead against it. But I think the public these days love being on CCTV night and day and probably won't object.

[jim360]

Thanks, I didn't get the reference.

[dannyk13]

TTT, What about the many people who do not have, and do not want,smart phones?

[jim360]

Anyway. Infringement of Civil liberties may be necessary at a time like this, and as long as there's proper oversight -- always a big "if" -- then I have no problem with it.

[Zacs-Master]

I must admit to being surprised at people taking up the tracker app given the general furore about CCTV cameras invading our personal privacy.

[jno]

there hasn't been a furore for 20 years or so, ZM. People approve because they believe every second person they meet wants to rob, terrorise or kill them.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Carrying an ID card about your person and showing it when asked is a far cry from literally being 'tagged' day and night through an App. I have changed my mind drastically over the last few weeks regarding government motivations. I have always taken the same view as TTT nothing to hide nothing to fear. However no way would I subscribe to having anything on my phone that gave anyone, government or other organisations, a record of my movements and those around me. This is indeed the thin end of the wedge and in my opinion absolutely not a price worth paying.

[ToraToraTora]

jim whenever this sort of question comes up, there is a whole group who say "nothing to hide, nothing to fear " - surprised you are not familiar with the concept. Basically that if you are not a criminal then you should not object to giving these sorts of powers to the government. I am generally not one of those but I think if it can get us back to a near normal existence then I'll accept it.

[ToraToraTora]

10:25, danny, then get them and join in or be locked out of society.

[jim360]

I just didn't understand the acronym is all. Maybe just too tired.

[ToraToraTora]

APG, we are all tracked anyway by the phone masts etc. The police often get the data from the phone companies when detecting. This would just be an app on top of that which we already have.

[jno]

a near normal existence where you are constantly under surveillance isn't anywhere near normal.

There are other ways of doing this

"We don't need fancy expensive apps where people are going to be exposed to issues of data privacy," Newcastle University Centre for Excellence in Regulatory Science director Prof Allyson Pollock told BBC News.

"We should be following... a low-tech model, using people and telephone [interviews].

"Clinical observation, we found in China and Singapore and Korea, is actually more efficient and gives many more positives."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52381103

[Zacs-Master]

I think the members of these groups would disagree, jno:
https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/The-State-of-Surveillance-in-2018.pdf

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/

Not sure how far this got:
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252457104/Civil-liberties-groups-to-challenge-bulk-surveillance-and-intelligence-sharing-in-Strasbourg

[AuntPollyGrey]

TTT it not only tracks the owner of the phone but records interactions between uses of the app. As far as I know ( could be wrong) you have to allow your phone to use your location for Apps and I'm sure you have to opt in rather than opt out.

[dannyk13]

TTT //, danny, then get them and join in or be locked out of society.//
Is that all you can offer, a facetious reply?. Many of my generation are not in a position to buy, or indeed understand, smart phones.

[ToraToraTora]

these are unusual times danny, we can't mess about.

[Ellipsis]

Almost everybody with a smartphone is tracked anyway. We are well used to (or completely unaware of) giving up privacy in return for a worthwhile service.

[ToraToraTora]

APG, it would work as now, people would have to agree etc but if they don't then they would not be allowed anywhere. You'll find that the phone will have to emit it's data that you are clear before you can enter etc. The Chines have a RAG system essentially if you cannot show a green bar code then you wont get into places. I'd rather have that than what we have now.

[AuntPollyGrey]

Christ this is beginning to sound like something off Black Mirror...……