Rip Little Richard

[tiggerblue10]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/little-richard-dead-48505/

[Mozz71]

//Regulars on this site, and you are one of them, will know that roy, in his current and alleged previous incarnations, has a history of personal animosity with me, leading me to reference it, which is perfectly reasonable//

In all honesty, I have no idea who Roy supposedly was in a previous incarnation. I'm not part of the appropriate clique here to discuss such things.

[jno]

I think Mozz is right about Jagger getting his style (in part) from Little Richard; I also think andy's right about his music as a substantial influence on the Beatles - they said so:

//When John Lennon was asked in 1970 by Rolling Stone’s Jann S. Wenner about his taste in music, Lennon simply replied, “A-wop bop-a-loo-bop.”//

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/little-richard-tribute-rob-sheffield-996849/

I'm not so sure about his influence on Buddy Holly, though.

[andy-hughes]

I see the influence on Buddy Holly from the primal drum beats and aggressive guitar delivery - pure rock and roll.

[royfromaus]

andy
'Without him, there would have been no Buddy Holly and no Beatles'

and andy
'As I have explained, I would not suggest that any one musician is crucial to the formation of any group - that is clearly not true.'


???

Mozz, whoever says without things like ''without Bucks Fizz there would be no Steps' is talking out their backside.

The only way a statement like that could be true was if Cheryl Baker was to get together a few singers and form a band called Steps.

[andy-hughes]

roy - // andy
'Without him, there would have been no Buddy Holly and no Beatles'

and andy
'As I have explained, I would not suggest that any one musician is crucial to the formation of any group - that is clearly not true.' //

A fair point - I have directly contradicted myself, which is careless of me.

I have thought about it, and my redefined position is this -

no one musician or group can ever be said to be directly and only responsible for the formation of, or musical style of any other musician or group.

The concept of influence is often subliminal and complex, and although broad similarities exist - as in the urgent rock and roll of Little Richard and others, and the music made in their early days by The Beatles, it would be inaccurate to suggest that Little Richard's influence was so over-reaching, that without it, The Beatles would not have have been th group they became.

I am never beyond being inaccurate, or mistaken, and I think in this instance I was both - and appreciate your input.

[fender62]

without the blues rock n roll would not exist, fact or would it be jazz.

[andy-hughes]

fender - // without the blues rock n roll would not exist, fact or would it be jazz. //

The famous phrase is something like -

"Jazz and Blues had a baby, and they named it Rock And Roll."

[Mamyalynne]

[jno]

I don't know, fender, I can't see much blues in Rock Around the Clock; it sounds more like the big band music of the 40s, only louder and faster. And Elvis's first hit was I Forgot To Remember To Forget - on the country charts. I think the influence of country on r'n'r is often underestimated.

[andy-hughes]

jno - // I think the influence of country on r'n'r is often underestimated. //

Absolutely.

I think the trick is not to look too hard for clearly defined borders, because all music is an amalgamation of influences from others styles of music, and trying to separate them one from another is a futile exercise.

[andy-hughes]

I've just listened to Mamya's added track 'You'd Better Stop' and in tempo and style, it is absolutely Northern Soul - which rather underlines my point about the blurring of borders in terms of what belongs where.

[Mozz71]

//Mozz, whoever says without things like ''without Bucks Fizz there would be no Steps' is talking out their backside.

The only way a statement like that could be true was if Cheryl Baker was to get together a few singers and form a band called Steps.//

That's a terrible analogy Roy, as without Abba, neither would have existed in the forms they did. Abba created the two-girl, two boy Eurovision formula, repeated by Brotherhood of Man and later Bucks Fizz. And they also influenced the sound Steps later had.

I think without Abba, Bucks Fizz wouldn't have been created, and Steps would've sounded different (perhaps a one hit wonder after that line dancing song the started with).

Good grief, I'm actually analysing the influence of Abba on pop music. You've turned me into Paul bloody Gambaccini!

I need a drink.

[Mozz71]

//I think the influence of country on r'n'r is often underestimated//

Completely. Elvis, Jerry Lee, Carl Perkins, Roy Orbison... All owed a lot to country music.

[andy-hughes]

Mozz - // Good grief, I'm actually analysing the influence of Abba on pop music. //

You could do far worse - Abba are pop titans, their influence on subsequent groups and artists is massive.

// You've turned me into Paul bloody Gambaccini! //

Once again you could do far worse - the Professor Of Pop is a learned and by all accounts extremely nice man.

[Mozz71]

Sorry, I missed Andy's apology and alteration of his stance. I think we're finally in agreement. Musical influences come from all over the industry, and all go together to form the style of those influenced. A majority may have looked different without their influences, but would've existed regardless.


Exept Oasis. ;o)

[Mozz71]

//Once again you could do far worse - the Professor Of Pop is a learned and by all accounts extremely nice man//

You're not wrong, I used to love Gambaccini's American chart show back in the day.

[andy-hughes]

Mozz - // //Once again you could do far worse - the Professor Of Pop is a learned and by all accounts extremely nice man//

You're not wrong, I used to love Gambaccini's American chart show back in the day. //

Way back, when I was very first writing, I called Radio One to speak to him and ask his advice. He was kind enough to call me back, and talked for some time, with some valuable advice, which I have never forgotten.

I have always admired him for his knowledge, his modesty, and the dignity with which he handled the witch hunt he endured.

[tomus42]

//Little Richard was a big influence on The Beatles, but whether he was crucial to their formation, is debatable. They were just as influenced by skiffle, Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison, Carl Perkins...

If anything, Little Richard was a bigger influence on Jagger. //

Jagger was a blues fan as were all the Stones. He would have picked up very little from Little Richard although I'm sure he liked him. The Beatles however got at least their screams and their high pitched wooooos from LR and they're on record as saying so.

LR was just one of their many influences.

[royfromaus]

Mozza...Abba influenced Oasis.

[andy-hughes]

roy - // Mozza...Abba influenced Oasis. //

Quite probably.

In an art form where influence is as subtle as it is available, it's quite probable that the skills needed to create pop masterpieces may have been awoken in Gallagher N by the genius that is the Abba writing duo.