Jimmy Saville

[sp1814]

Think of it this way...Jimmy Saville.

Whilst he was alive, he raised about £40m for Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He was a hero. A national treasure. He earned an O.B.E.

Then he was knighted.

If in the 1970s, Stoke Mandeville decided to erect a statue in honour of him, knowing what we now know - isn’t it understandable that people would want it removed?

Wouldn’t the children of those that Saville abused not want to see a public monument to him?

[naomi24]

Theland, what tosh. What does atheism or religion have to do with this?

[Peter Pedant]

// Come on brothers! To the revolution!! Hurrah!// someone

oh dear - it is sometimes so difficult to tell if some people are spoofing as it is so close to the real thing !

[Peter Pedant]

oh my god - she's off !

[Theland]

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Sorry to all ABers for talking tosh.

[naomi24]

Theland, I'll ask again. What does this have to do with religion or atheism?

[Mozz71]

//Theland, what tosh./

Says the person who just wrote "And actually, whilst we're about it, why don't all we white people take to wearing a new uniform. Sackcloth and ashes should do it."


(Although what Theland wrote was utter nonsense)

[Mozz71]

//Sorry to all ABers for talking tosh.//

An apology that's been long in coming.

[douglas9401]

[Theland]

Do you ever see those programmes about, '' Celebrity Fails?''

First the clip of film is shown, them a collection of B or C listers are paraded to sneer at the clip.

AB is full of commentators who lack the guts to make an original post, preferring instead to snipe and sneer.

'' Ah the lonely people,
Where do they all come from?''

[vulcan42]

Theland \\ AB is full of commentators who lack the guts to make an original post,//
This, from the master YouTube video provider.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // Let's personalise this a little. Derek lives in Bristol. He used to walk past the Colston statue twice a day, five days a week. Derek's grandparents came from Jamaica in 1948, part of the Windrush generation encouraged by British government in 1948 to come over and fill shortages in the labour market. Derek's parents were both born and raised in England. So was Derek.

Derek's grandparents were in Jamaica in the first place because Colston and others like him forced them out of Africa and put them to work as slaves in a completely different part of the world. Many of those slaves were raped, tortured and murdered alongside being kidnapped, expatriated and subjected to forced labour.

So here's Derek, his ancestors suffering crimes against humanity at Colston's hands, his grandparents coming to England by invitation and being granted citizenship by the UK government, his parents and himself born and raised here, walking twice daily past a monument to the slave trader. What does he make of it? What would you make of it. //

You are assuming that Derek must have an awareness of history that would only be possible in adults a lot older than he is.

By then he will have learned some perspective - yes his ancestors were badly treated, but a fortunate set of circumstances has seen him born into a land of opportunity.

Maybe he won't be interested in visiting retribution on people who were not alive when his ancestors we being made slaves, because expecting people to pay the price for the sins of their ancestors is simply not viable, so it's best if we agree to learn from you history and avoid the same mistakes again.

[mushroom25]

// expecting people to pay the price for the sins of their ancestors is simply not viable, //

you may think so - but it's a concept that's gained ground in the last few years, and a concept that has the ear of some powerful lobbies. here's 2 links, there are many many more.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/10/its-time-for-britain-to-think-seriously-about-reparations-for-slavery
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/reparations-us-slavery-african-americans-chuck-schumer-uk-david-cameron-a9008761.html

[andres]

One of my ancestors ,a cabin boy ,was captured and enslaved for over twenty years in Morocco. The African Barbary pirates terrorised the coastal towns along the Mediterranean , Cornwall and Southern Ireland for many years . Kidnapped over one million white Europeans and enslaved them. Then some of them were offered back to their own countries for huge ransoms. So slavery worked both ways.

[andy-hughes]

mushroom - // // expecting people to pay the price for the sins of their ancestors is simply not viable, //

you may think so - but it's a concept that's gained ground in the last few years, and a concept that has the ear of some powerful lobbies. here's 2 links, there are many many more. //

I do think it's not viable, and because it gains traction among a few attention seekers who get off on making themselves feel bad in public so they can reassure everyone how caring and sensitive they are, does not increase its viability.

[Theland]

Vulcan, a master of the sneer from the sidelines.

[Theland]

Why be so selective in favour of blacks.
Many whites also had ancestors who suffered terrible lives
Should the blacks have tax increases to compensate them?

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Should the blacks … //

Referring to black people in those terms is offensive, and I am sure I have pointed this out previously.

Why not consider a term less jarring - it avoids you being associated with unpleasant views which I like to think you do not hold.

[Theland]

Of course I don't hold racist views.
In my family, and wider family I have nine BAMEs including in that figure are four beautiful grandchildren.

[vulcan42]

\\ Vulcan, a master of the sneer from the sidelines.//
At least my sneers weren't found on YouTube.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Of course I don't hold racist views.
In my family, and wider family I have nine BAMEs including in that figure are four beautiful grandchildren. //

Then surely you should know better ...