Quizzes & Puzzles2 mins ago
Jimmy Saville
Think of it this way...Jimmy Saville.
Whilst he was alive, he raised about £40m for Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He was a hero. A national treasure. He earned an O.B.E.
Then he was knighted.
If in the 1970s, Stoke Mandeville decided to erect a statue in honour of him, knowing what we now know - isn’t it understandable that people would want it removed?
Wouldn’t the children of those that Saville abused not want to see a public monument to him?
Whilst he was alive, he raised about £40m for Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He was a hero. A national treasure. He earned an O.B.E.
Then he was knighted.
If in the 1970s, Stoke Mandeville decided to erect a statue in honour of him, knowing what we now know - isn’t it understandable that people would want it removed?
Wouldn’t the children of those that Saville abused not want to see a public monument to him?
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DTC - // … and deletes folk's messages at his will. //
For the umpteenth time, not that you will remember it -
I do not delete messages 'at my will' - I am obliged to explain any deletions to the Editor.
And since neither you, or anyone else, know who has deleted what messages, there is no evidence that I have deleted anything on this thread - but don't let that get in the way of you having another pointless off-thread dig.
For the umpteenth time, not that you will remember it -
I do not delete messages 'at my will' - I am obliged to explain any deletions to the Editor.
And since neither you, or anyone else, know who has deleted what messages, there is no evidence that I have deleted anything on this thread - but don't let that get in the way of you having another pointless off-thread dig.
DTC - // Prove that you didn't delete it...... //
Obviously I wouldn't even if I could, but as it happens I can't.
What makes you so keen to have a fight at the time of night - do you hit the alcohol, or are you perhaps just over-tired?
Either way, you are derailing a thread, so once again I would ask you to desist.
Thank you.
Obviously I wouldn't even if I could, but as it happens I can't.
What makes you so keen to have a fight at the time of night - do you hit the alcohol, or are you perhaps just over-tired?
Either way, you are derailing a thread, so once again I would ask you to desist.
Thank you.
How will taking down the statue of a slave trader help a black person? It will allow them to think they're living in a country that no longer celebrates what that person did to their ancestors.
That would help me too, even though I'm not black. But, as I've said elsewhere, I don't think that statue should have been taken down until its taking down symbolised the end of systemic racism, which we're a long way off at present. And I see the statue and the arguments over it as testament to that.
That would help me too, even though I'm not black. But, as I've said elsewhere, I don't think that statue should have been taken down until its taking down symbolised the end of systemic racism, which we're a long way off at present. And I see the statue and the arguments over it as testament to that.
//The descendents of those people are now bona fide citizens of this country. //
Why bother to do that if this country is so awful. Why are people risking life and limb to get here with their families? I honestly believed they have aspirations of a better life here than where they had fled. Who told them that? How did they find that out? Could it be we and our ways are the envy of the outside world .What is the attraction of our lifestyle,our culture,our benefits,our liberal freedoms that people have fought and died for to keep us a free society. Tell my why they come here please.
Why bother to do that if this country is so awful. Why are people risking life and limb to get here with their families? I honestly believed they have aspirations of a better life here than where they had fled. Who told them that? How did they find that out? Could it be we and our ways are the envy of the outside world .What is the attraction of our lifestyle,our culture,our benefits,our liberal freedoms that people have fought and died for to keep us a free society. Tell my why they come here please.
Ellipsis, I posted this on another thread yesterday. It's written by a black woman in Jamaica.
"Dear Editor,
I declare that I am a history enthusiast and I join others who hold the view that if you do not know about your past you cannot shape your future.
In the midst of the protests about George Floyd, attention has turned to colonisation, slavery, and racism. There are now calls to remove statues, monuments, and plaques from the public domain and to rename roads, among other things. Some radical voices would incite others to destroy historic buildings, monuments, and infrastructure, suggesting they are symbols of evil.
Jamaica experienced 468 years of colonisation and slavery. Were we to commence changing the names of places and removing monuments, etc, what cost would that be to taxpayers? We would have to start by renaming some of our parishes, Manchester, Trelawny; many of our towns and villages; and a great many of our communities and roads.
We have opened Port Royal to visitors and have been seeking to have it declared a United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) World Heritage Site. A lot of wicked people were there.
We see Falmouth as an important Georgian historic site and tourist destination. A cruise ship pier is there. Should we now bulldoze it, as the people who lived there owned slaves?
Does Spanish Town no longer have any value because it was the seat of the colonial government?
I think we need to take a few deep breaths and engage in a rational discussion about our history and its value. We need more voices in the discussion and greater public awareness. We cannot erase history. It is what was. We emerged from it. It is our story. We should preserve it, learn from it, benefit from it, and write new chapters."
"Dear Editor,
I declare that I am a history enthusiast and I join others who hold the view that if you do not know about your past you cannot shape your future.
In the midst of the protests about George Floyd, attention has turned to colonisation, slavery, and racism. There are now calls to remove statues, monuments, and plaques from the public domain and to rename roads, among other things. Some radical voices would incite others to destroy historic buildings, monuments, and infrastructure, suggesting they are symbols of evil.
Jamaica experienced 468 years of colonisation and slavery. Were we to commence changing the names of places and removing monuments, etc, what cost would that be to taxpayers? We would have to start by renaming some of our parishes, Manchester, Trelawny; many of our towns and villages; and a great many of our communities and roads.
We have opened Port Royal to visitors and have been seeking to have it declared a United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) World Heritage Site. A lot of wicked people were there.
We see Falmouth as an important Georgian historic site and tourist destination. A cruise ship pier is there. Should we now bulldoze it, as the people who lived there owned slaves?
Does Spanish Town no longer have any value because it was the seat of the colonial government?
I think we need to take a few deep breaths and engage in a rational discussion about our history and its value. We need more voices in the discussion and greater public awareness. We cannot erase history. It is what was. We emerged from it. It is our story. We should preserve it, learn from it, benefit from it, and write new chapters."
> Tell my why they come here please
They are not they. They are us. They are born and raised here. Many are descendants of the Windrush generation:
https:/
After World War II, many African-Caribbean people migrated to North America and Europe, especially to the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, and the Netherlands. As a result of the losses during the war, the British government began to encourage mass immigration from the countries of the British Empire and Commonwealth to fill shortages in the labour market. The British Nationality Act 1948 gave Citizenship of the UK and Colonies to all people living in the United Kingdom and its colonies, and the right of entry and settlement in the UK. Many West Indians were attracted by better prospects in what was often referred to as the mother country.
They are not they. They are us. They are born and raised here. Many are descendants of the Windrush generation:
https:/
After World War II, many African-Caribbean people migrated to North America and Europe, especially to the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, and the Netherlands. As a result of the losses during the war, the British government began to encourage mass immigration from the countries of the British Empire and Commonwealth to fill shortages in the labour market. The British Nationality Act 1948 gave Citizenship of the UK and Colonies to all people living in the United Kingdom and its colonies, and the right of entry and settlement in the UK. Many West Indians were attracted by better prospects in what was often referred to as the mother country.
sanmac, this is not Jamaica it's the UK. They can do what they like. It's unclear whether the woman you quoted holds the most popular position there.
As for the UK, I said the statue should not have been torn down until what it represents is no longer glorified by our country. At that time, similarly offensive statues can easily be taken down or moved. Statues are erected, taken down and moved around all the time. Just look at the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square, for example.
As for the UK, I said the statue should not have been torn down until what it represents is no longer glorified by our country. At that time, similarly offensive statues can easily be taken down or moved. Statues are erected, taken down and moved around all the time. Just look at the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square, for example.
I am aware of the Windrush generation. Recent History compared to the times of Colston
//Many West Indians were attracted by better prospects in what was often referred to as the mother country.//
Exactly. They came here in full knowledge of our slaving history but it didn't deter them from still coming did it. They came from the very places which were overseen by British imperialism. As the letter that sanmac provided,written by a Jamaican lady, they are no strangers to the history of the slave trade even back in the 1950s. As the evidence still remains in Jamaica why would you imagine that this country would need to hide it's past to people who choose to come here for 'better prospects'. Their choice and I do not feel guilty for what is perceived as wrong now but was acceptable 200 years ago.
If modern day black Jamaicans are offended and upset they should also erase it in Jamaica but they haven't.
//Many West Indians were attracted by better prospects in what was often referred to as the mother country.//
Exactly. They came here in full knowledge of our slaving history but it didn't deter them from still coming did it. They came from the very places which were overseen by British imperialism. As the letter that sanmac provided,written by a Jamaican lady, they are no strangers to the history of the slave trade even back in the 1950s. As the evidence still remains in Jamaica why would you imagine that this country would need to hide it's past to people who choose to come here for 'better prospects'. Their choice and I do not feel guilty for what is perceived as wrong now but was acceptable 200 years ago.
If modern day black Jamaicans are offended and upset they should also erase it in Jamaica but they haven't.
//Why do you want to leave the statue up? //
Because it was ,no doubt erected, by the grateful people of Bristol for the good Colston did for them at the time. They benefited from him as a philanphropist and his work to ensure they 'enjoyed better prospects' in his city. It is not my place to demand ,from my fellow countrymen and women whose families have worked, lived and enjoyed the benefits of this country and the benefactors a lot longer than the Windrush generation, to tear down statues which represent our History warts and all.
I hate and abhor Terrorism and I fail to see why the criminal leader of a terrorist ANC gang in another country is glorified with a statue in mine. I do not have the arrogance to demand the removal of Mandela though.His statue is where it is. I accept it is there and I choose to ignore it.
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