Law5 mins ago
Question For The Prof Or Other Sciencey Type
We are told that LFT's should only be used before there are symptoms. I have been trying to find out what the science is behind this (not that i disbelieve it or am against testing) Someone who understands a bit has told me that the reason is that too high a viral load on the test denatures the enzyme used and therefore the test doesn't work. I have hunted and hunted but can't find any research or evidence on this and wondered if anyone with proper knowledge can help?
Thank you.
Yes I know I have put this in the "wrong" category but covid testing IS news and I thought I'd get more traffic here
Thank you.
Yes I know I have put this in the "wrong" category but covid testing IS news and I thought I'd get more traffic here
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oh dear I have just read Khandy's last sentence
so many non sequiturs that I invent the following phrase
omnia non sequentur
The prof sculpts a wonderful vista on testing ( OK no PPV and NPV but so what, that is like carving Artemis ventrix and showing her ..... never mind) or Hercules wivva a large wu-wu
sculpts a wonderful and inspriring panorama on testing
and Khandro takes out his teeth and gums into the camera:
"well young man I am STILL not going to have it anyway !"
sic transit - - - - I did think this was the final battle and the prof wd by dint of overpowering argument get the antivaxxers to hold out their arms ( geddit?) and say - - OK doc - you've won!
so many non sequiturs that I invent the following phrase
omnia non sequentur
The prof sculpts a wonderful vista on testing ( OK no PPV and NPV but so what, that is like carving Artemis ventrix and showing her ..... never mind) or Hercules wivva a large wu-wu
sculpts a wonderful and inspriring panorama on testing
and Khandro takes out his teeth and gums into the camera:
"well young man I am STILL not going to have it anyway !"
sic transit - - - - I did think this was the final battle and the prof wd by dint of overpowering argument get the antivaxxers to hold out their arms ( geddit?) and say - - OK doc - you've won!
//Right now, if enough people catch the omicron variant and end up in hospital, that will be a catastrophe for the NHS and I'm with the great and the good on that.//
Quite so. "If". So are you among those who countenance the idea that as soon as a threat to the integrity of the NHS arises, however remote or speculative, the country's fundamental freedoms should be summarily withdrawn? If so, for how long is this to continue? How long is the NHS to be rebranded the National Covid Service?
The NHS is already overwhelmed. It has been overwhelmed for as long as I can remember and is becoming increasingly so. But not by Covid. Covid patients currently occupy around 5% of NHS beds. Meanwhile there are currently some five million people waiting to begin treatment - a figure that is likely to double in the next twelve months. Millions more have begun treatment but have seen it delayed or suspended entirely. Many of these patients have life threatening conditions; others suffer chronic pain. Meanwhile the NHS is busy testing a million healthy people a day for a disease for which 19 out of 20 will test negative. Of the one in twenty who appear to have the virus, many of them will have no symptoms, the vast majority will require no treatment at all, one in 50 of them might be hospitalised and one in 500 may die (all rough figures). So really, the issue is not what type of test healthy people undergo, but why are they being tested at all?
Quite so. "If". So are you among those who countenance the idea that as soon as a threat to the integrity of the NHS arises, however remote or speculative, the country's fundamental freedoms should be summarily withdrawn? If so, for how long is this to continue? How long is the NHS to be rebranded the National Covid Service?
The NHS is already overwhelmed. It has been overwhelmed for as long as I can remember and is becoming increasingly so. But not by Covid. Covid patients currently occupy around 5% of NHS beds. Meanwhile there are currently some five million people waiting to begin treatment - a figure that is likely to double in the next twelve months. Millions more have begun treatment but have seen it delayed or suspended entirely. Many of these patients have life threatening conditions; others suffer chronic pain. Meanwhile the NHS is busy testing a million healthy people a day for a disease for which 19 out of 20 will test negative. Of the one in twenty who appear to have the virus, many of them will have no symptoms, the vast majority will require no treatment at all, one in 50 of them might be hospitalised and one in 500 may die (all rough figures). So really, the issue is not what type of test healthy people undergo, but why are they being tested at all?
Not sure if this is the right thread.
I know this might make me sound like a conspiracy theorist, but since the summer I have had literally dozens of friends get covid who are double jabbed.
The scientific community insist that that is extremely rare, but Almost everyone I know getting it is jabbed.
Admittedly, I am in an hotspot area, but it still seems to be contrary to what we are being told.
I know this might make me sound like a conspiracy theorist, but since the summer I have had literally dozens of friends get covid who are double jabbed.
The scientific community insist that that is extremely rare, but Almost everyone I know getting it is jabbed.
Admittedly, I am in an hotspot area, but it still seems to be contrary to what we are being told.
New Judge, I'm afraid I'll decline to answer the remarks you have made in your post.
I have said on here on more than one occasion that I don't discuss any aspect of this that involves politics and the points you raise are political issues.
Let me be clear. I and my team of 172 scientists submit our findings and data to the government. They make the decisions based on that information and other information and I play no part in the way they respond to the data. As Sunak said a few weeks ago, the government are free to ignore the data provided if they so wish.
I will say though that if you consider that the NHS is already overwhelmed, believe me that "you ain't seen nothing yet" if we don't get on top of this.
Talk is cheap when one is not working at the sharp end. I don't work in a BSL-4 facility for nothing. I'll leave it at that.
I have said on here on more than one occasion that I don't discuss any aspect of this that involves politics and the points you raise are political issues.
Let me be clear. I and my team of 172 scientists submit our findings and data to the government. They make the decisions based on that information and other information and I play no part in the way they respond to the data. As Sunak said a few weeks ago, the government are free to ignore the data provided if they so wish.
I will say though that if you consider that the NHS is already overwhelmed, believe me that "you ain't seen nothing yet" if we don't get on top of this.
Talk is cheap when one is not working at the sharp end. I don't work in a BSL-4 facility for nothing. I'll leave it at that.
// but why are they being tested at all?//
oh god and it started so well - - this thread I mean
because - - -- a loadda infections ( = you got it and can pass it on) are asymptomatic - and they want to limit spread by isolation
... and we are back to...do any of these measures like isolation work, and why do we test at all because in the long run, we are all gonna DDDDIIIIIEEEE!
wh wd indicate that the whole of this sciencey thread has been a waste of time - believers still believe, judges still cant add, doubters still doubt, cussers curse worse probably, all in the same pre-ratio (= ratio before we all started blaaarting, or as The Prof wd say, "the intervention")
oh god and it started so well - - this thread I mean
because - - -- a loadda infections ( = you got it and can pass it on) are asymptomatic - and they want to limit spread by isolation
... and we are back to...do any of these measures like isolation work, and why do we test at all because in the long run, we are all gonna DDDDIIIIIEEEE!
wh wd indicate that the whole of this sciencey thread has been a waste of time - believers still believe, judges still cant add, doubters still doubt, cussers curse worse probably, all in the same pre-ratio (= ratio before we all started blaaarting, or as The Prof wd say, "the intervention")
//New Judge, I'm afraid I'll decline to answer the remarks you have made in your post.//
Thanks for that. I'll not bother to respond to any of your posts in the future, then. I appreciate where your expertise lies but I'm afraid that only discussing one aspect of this sorry affair is the reason why the country faces the problems it does.
Thanks for that. I'll not bother to respond to any of your posts in the future, then. I appreciate where your expertise lies but I'm afraid that only discussing one aspect of this sorry affair is the reason why the country faces the problems it does.
covid is here to stay, everyone must face that, you're either going to get it or resist it, you can't stay in your house for ever hoping it will miraculously somehow walk away.
Everything is being done in the UK to "save the NHS!" but I thought the NHS was there to save the people. If the NHS can't cope, then there may be something wrong with the NHS.
Everything is being done in the UK to "save the NHS!" but I thought the NHS was there to save the people. If the NHS can't cope, then there may be something wrong with the NHS.
New Judge
"Thanks for that. I'll not bother to respond to any of your posts in the future, then. I appreciate where your expertise lies but I'm afraid that only discussing one aspect of this sorry affair is the reason why the country faces the problems it does."
Except that, while I accept that no one, not even the OP, has the righ to choose how a thread develops and who replies, this thread was written to ask a fairly specific factual question of someone who has the appropriate factual scientific knowledge.
With no offence intended to the Prof, so far as I know he is not a politician and therefore its understandable that he would decline to discuss the political aspects of the pandemic. I don't expect my excellent vet to answer questions about financial investment.
PP I don't think the thread has been entirely useless. I asked a specific question and its been answered....is that not what the AB is here for?
"Thanks for that. I'll not bother to respond to any of your posts in the future, then. I appreciate where your expertise lies but I'm afraid that only discussing one aspect of this sorry affair is the reason why the country faces the problems it does."
Except that, while I accept that no one, not even the OP, has the righ to choose how a thread develops and who replies, this thread was written to ask a fairly specific factual question of someone who has the appropriate factual scientific knowledge.
With no offence intended to the Prof, so far as I know he is not a politician and therefore its understandable that he would decline to discuss the political aspects of the pandemic. I don't expect my excellent vet to answer questions about financial investment.
PP I don't think the thread has been entirely useless. I asked a specific question and its been answered....is that not what the AB is here for?
I'd have thought it would be a desirable thing that theprof's focus is strictly on matters scientific. If indeed the political approach to Covid is wrong (in NJ's opinion), then at least he can draw some comfort that it's the fault of accountable politicians, and not the fault of biased scientists :)
Well said NJ about testing. It is a pointless exercise. Taking up valuable resources and time. It just adds fire to the flames and gives lockdown lovers the excuse they need to sit on their backsides at home doing nothing and expecting to be subsidised by the taxpayer. As I have said more times the I can remember, the only numbers we should concern ourselves with is the number in hospital solely due to covid. Even then the idea that every time the NHS gets stretched we should shut down society is absolutely ludicrous.
//With no offence intended to the Prof, so far as I know he is not a politician and therefore its understandable that he would decline to discuss the political aspects of the pandemic.//
It might be. Except that he gave an opinion on what is purely a political decision, before scuttling away to hide behind the “I’m only a scientist” declaration. Much of the “science” which is dominating life to such a degree at present is opinion and conjecture as opposed to fact and it seems strange that a scientist who is in the business that produces so much of that opinion is unwilling to discuss any himself. I imagine very few people who post on AB are politicians but they are not restricted to posting solely about matters within their field of expertise, especially when those matters have such a profound effect on them and their lives. But no matter, I’ll not lose any sleep. I can only repeat what I said earlier and that is, if the debate surrounding the other aspects of the pandemic and its effects on the population are summarily closed down in the same way, then we are all in for a very rough time indeed - except for those unfortunate enough to contract Covid, that is.
It might be. Except that he gave an opinion on what is purely a political decision, before scuttling away to hide behind the “I’m only a scientist” declaration. Much of the “science” which is dominating life to such a degree at present is opinion and conjecture as opposed to fact and it seems strange that a scientist who is in the business that produces so much of that opinion is unwilling to discuss any himself. I imagine very few people who post on AB are politicians but they are not restricted to posting solely about matters within their field of expertise, especially when those matters have such a profound effect on them and their lives. But no matter, I’ll not lose any sleep. I can only repeat what I said earlier and that is, if the debate surrounding the other aspects of the pandemic and its effects on the population are summarily closed down in the same way, then we are all in for a very rough time indeed - except for those unfortunate enough to contract Covid, that is.
There's presumably a difference between commentating on something outside your field of expertise when you are in essentially the same position as anybody else, and when you are officially connected. I'm not sure if theprof is officially subject to confidentiality clauses, but I would be amazed if he were able to share everything he knows/does, and likewise I'd be amazed if commenting on the policy, even from a position of relative anonymity, would be ethical in the circumstances.
There's no-one on this site, anyway, who knows more about Covid, and the research into it, than theprof. That's valuable insight. It is perhaps a shame that it's "limited" to matters scientific, but it would be a shame indeed if we lost that access to such expertise, or cut ourselves off from it, by demanding more than he's prepared to give. The politics we can debate amongst ourselves, anyway.
There's no-one on this site, anyway, who knows more about Covid, and the research into it, than theprof. That's valuable insight. It is perhaps a shame that it's "limited" to matters scientific, but it would be a shame indeed if we lost that access to such expertise, or cut ourselves off from it, by demanding more than he's prepared to give. The politics we can debate amongst ourselves, anyway.
I think it's a good thing, as often opinions get in the way of facts. Sometimes, just straight information is all that's needed.
I saw that the LTF works by binding some antibody to a covid protein? Does that include colds?
And what actually is it, that the Control reacts to? Will it show up as "worked" with just the solution alone?
Stupid questions, I know....
I saw that the LTF works by binding some antibody to a covid protein? Does that include colds?
And what actually is it, that the Control reacts to? Will it show up as "worked" with just the solution alone?
Stupid questions, I know....
It never ceases to amaze me how puerile some people can be here on AB. TheProf has made clear that he will not discuss politics and political decisions here on AB yet he has been asked in this thread to explain NHS integrity, freedom and timescales.
Why should theprof have knowledge of these subjects or government intentions? Why would someone feel that the prof is suitably placed to give an opinion on these matters? These are matters for politicians regardless of whether you love them or loathe them. Are we really in a position where we consider the likes of Whitty and Valance, the face of scientific knowledge during this pandemic, to have a major input in decision making by the government? Let's make no mistake: it's clear whose boss of the three we see at the lecterns in Downing Street.
Unquestionably this was a question about the science and nothing else as others have said here and I consider it right that we can expect theprof to confine himself to the subject if he so wishes.
Anyone who wishes to object to political policies should take their grievance up with their MP. Simples.
I can't say I recall a thread where one poster has said that he won't respond to another poster in the future on the basis that the other poster has declined to answer his question. I'm gobsmacked.
Why should theprof have knowledge of these subjects or government intentions? Why would someone feel that the prof is suitably placed to give an opinion on these matters? These are matters for politicians regardless of whether you love them or loathe them. Are we really in a position where we consider the likes of Whitty and Valance, the face of scientific knowledge during this pandemic, to have a major input in decision making by the government? Let's make no mistake: it's clear whose boss of the three we see at the lecterns in Downing Street.
Unquestionably this was a question about the science and nothing else as others have said here and I consider it right that we can expect theprof to confine himself to the subject if he so wishes.
Anyone who wishes to object to political policies should take their grievance up with their MP. Simples.
I can't say I recall a thread where one poster has said that he won't respond to another poster in the future on the basis that the other poster has declined to answer his question. I'm gobsmacked.
//I'm not sure if theprof is officially subject to confidentiality clauses, but I would be amazed if he were able to share everything he knows/does, and likewise I'd be amazed if commenting on the policy, even from a position of relative anonymity, would be ethical in the circumstances.//
Clutching at straws, Jim. I didn't ask The Prof to disclose any sensitive or secret information or share anything he knows. I asked for a comment on this:
//Right now, if enough people catch the omicron variant and end up in hospital, that will be a catastrophe for the NHS and I'm with the great and the good on that.//
You, I or the milkman could have made such a comment. It requires no in depth knowledge, no particular skills and no sensitive information. I simply asked whether The Prof agreed with the likely government response to such a situation. He declined and that's his privilege. I know not to bother him again and that's mine.
Clutching at straws, Jim. I didn't ask The Prof to disclose any sensitive or secret information or share anything he knows. I asked for a comment on this:
//Right now, if enough people catch the omicron variant and end up in hospital, that will be a catastrophe for the NHS and I'm with the great and the good on that.//
You, I or the milkman could have made such a comment. It requires no in depth knowledge, no particular skills and no sensitive information. I simply asked whether The Prof agreed with the likely government response to such a situation. He declined and that's his privilege. I know not to bother him again and that's mine.
Between 2000 and 2020 the NHS lost 47% of available beds, not to mention very many doctors and nurses, replaced by pin striped suit executives receiving 3 x the salary of a nurse. Is it really covid that's created the carnage at present in the NHS? In my opinion we are being asked to protect the NHS now because of poor management of the past.
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