War News

[ichkeria]

War News
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I thought I would start a separate thread on the situation in Ukraine as several of the other related threads are getting a bit fractious and have long since deviated from the original question.
That isn't a criticism: it's human nature and shows we're free to argue.

This man was miraculously pulled from his car in Obolon (N Kyiv) after it was steamrollered by a Russian tank. The "denazification" process continues (!)

https://twitter.com/ww3_ukraine/status/1497156604260724736/photo/1

[ichkeria]

Peter see above

[Peter Pedant]

// Their poor troops have been lied to about why they are there, //
happened in Prague 1968
Red Army told they were liberating
and were greeted by signs - like

"Ivan, what are you doing here. Your girl back home is screwing someone else!" - pure Tokyo Rose 1945

[naomi24]

//I saw a film of some unarmed civilians near Zaporizhzhya, in the SE, shouting at a Russian tank and effectively chasing it away. //

I can't imagine the Russian people - soldiers included - have much of an appetite for what's happening.

[ichkeria]

Also, on subject of special forces:
Say you are in Syria and going after an ISIS installation.
Motivation I would have thought there would not be a problem.
But go into a situation where you are expecting God knows what, and you are facing an enemy who looks like, speaks like you, and is defending his home.
Ok for the hardest it may not matter, but ...

[jim360]

Ho hum... Naomi, to be clear, I am absolutely not criticising the UK's response to the War in Ukraine. I'm expressing a hope, and expectation, that they go further still on welcoming refugees unconditionally if it becomes necessary. That is all. In all other regards, the UK has certainly been at the frontline of efforts to support Ukraine, be it by military support, or financial support, or in pushing for ever-tighter sanctions internationally -- for example, on SWIFT, although credit for that of course is shared by Zelenskiy's own extraordinary efforts.

As to the EU's position, von der Leyen has said that the EU will seek to extend a welcome to all refugees, for up to three years, see eg the links below. The situation is moving fast, so it's not instantly clear to me if this policy shift has already occurred, or is still to be agreed upon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/world/europe/european-union-ukrainian-refugees-asylum.html

https://www.insider.com/eu-nations-to-accept-ukraine-refugee-for-3-years-report-2022-2

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10557929/ALL-EU-countries-Ukrainian-refugees-three-years-without-asylum-applications.html

[ichkeria]

"I can't imagine the Russian people - soldiers included - have much of an appetite for what's happening. "

Absolutely not. This is really Putin, not Russia, v Ukraine. Ukraine had a website and hotline number (the latter given out at the UN) for Russians to phone for knowldege of their loved ones and whether they had been captured.
The website was hastily blocked yesterday

[naomi24]

Ich, //you are facing an enemy who looks like, speaks like you, and is defending his home. //

More to the point one who's done nothing to justify the assault.

[jim360]

I should also note that the Daily Mail link points out that the UK Government is already looking at changing its policy and going further still:

// [The current UK policy] means scores of desperate Ukrainians who do not have a connection to the UK will still be denied refuge in Britain. When this was pointed out to Foreign Secretary Liz Truss this morning, she was asked if the policy would be changed.

She said: 'We are looking urgently at what we can do. We're working with European partners about how we support refugees who are leaving Ukraine. So, yes, is the answer.' //

[sandra4444]

Don't be fooled by any peace talks.
Just another smokescreen /tactic of Putin, he can then show on Russian TV that he tried to make peace.

[ichkeria]

Bearing in mind what I said earlier, from the BBC website

"Several other children have been killed in the Russian advance, including a girl called Polina, who was in the final year of primary school in Kyiv.
According to Kyiv's local authority she and her parents were shot dead by a Russian sabotage and reconnaissance group on a street in the north-west of the capital. "

[ABSpareEditor]

Please be extremely careful when sharing videos that contain violence or graphic content.

[naomi24]

Jim, from your link:

//The European Commission, the bloc’s executive arm, will ask member nations next week to grant temporary asylum to all Ukrainians coming to the bloc for up to three years//

So they haven't //already agreed to unconditional entry for Ukrainians for the next three years. //

[jim360]

Then it's only a few days away, since at the very least it's clear that the leadership from all 27 member states are onboard: the rest is detail, and signing on the dotted line. And, as I said, I expect the UK to make a similar announcement within the next few days as well.

I don't wish to get into an argument on this. But you misread my initial post, when it should have been clear what I meant. I don't want there to be any doubt about the point that I'm impressed by the UK Government's response since the Invasion began. If there's ever a comment of mine that seems to imply something other than support for the Government but doesn't explicitly say "I don't support the Government on this", then I'd encourage you to look again at said comment in a more favourable light.

[naomi24]

I've looked. That's enough.

[jim360]

Fine. But, on this topic at least, if a comment I write doesn't explicitly say "I don't support the Government", then I support the Government. Any other reading would be mistaken.

[jim360]

Further discussion should be directed to this thread:

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1787038.html

[naomi24]

Not necessarily. If anyone has issues from this thread to discuss they are, of course, free to do that.