ChatterBank24 mins ago
Looks Like Sir Kier Has Nailed His Colours To The Mast.
63 Answers
Well I dont agree with him on this self declaring gender but at least he had the balls to do it unlike other ladies recently.
Not sure how it will go down with the women voters, perhaps a few ladies might like to inform us?
https:/
Not sure how it will go down with the women voters, perhaps a few ladies might like to inform us?
https:/
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ymf, I did get the impression that SKS was 'backing' what he thought the law says. I may not have read the whole piece, but I did notice that bit. People may not like the legal position, but I hope they won't be making a nuisance of themselves because they don't like the law; I've never been in favour of that. Can you imagine people stomping up Whitehall chanting 'End Of! End Of!' Even some RW ABers surely wouldn't appove of that sort of thing.
//Trans women are women'://
Unfortunately the Learned former Director of Public Prosecutions is simply voicing his opinion based on the law. But the law makes all sorts of assertions which may be “law” but which are not necessarily fact. For example, it insists that a person is innocent until proven guilty. That is merely a legal convention, not a fact. As soon as you steal a bottle of vodka from Tesco’s it is a fact that you are guilty of theft. You may never be apprehended and convicted, but you are guilty nonetheless. But not in the eyes of the law.
And so it is with this nonsense, and here’s why:
//But despite all this, nine weeks into hormone treatments, Ryan, 24, discovered he was expecting a child//
Only male people should use the pronoun “he” and male humans cannot give birth. Ergo, “Ryan” is not a man. It must be said that she is probably among the very, very few people with genuine gender dysphoria and has already taken extreme measures to address that unfortunate condition, principally by having her breasts removed. That is in stark contrast to the large numbers of people who allege they have the condition but who, in reality, simply enjoy experimenting with the dressing up box.
Unfortunately the Learned former Director of Public Prosecutions is simply voicing his opinion based on the law. But the law makes all sorts of assertions which may be “law” but which are not necessarily fact. For example, it insists that a person is innocent until proven guilty. That is merely a legal convention, not a fact. As soon as you steal a bottle of vodka from Tesco’s it is a fact that you are guilty of theft. You may never be apprehended and convicted, but you are guilty nonetheless. But not in the eyes of the law.
And so it is with this nonsense, and here’s why:
//But despite all this, nine weeks into hormone treatments, Ryan, 24, discovered he was expecting a child//
Only male people should use the pronoun “he” and male humans cannot give birth. Ergo, “Ryan” is not a man. It must be said that she is probably among the very, very few people with genuine gender dysphoria and has already taken extreme measures to address that unfortunate condition, principally by having her breasts removed. That is in stark contrast to the large numbers of people who allege they have the condition but who, in reality, simply enjoy experimenting with the dressing up box.
Here we go. Trans-women are not women. They have not grown up and been shaped by their hormones and societal attitudes. They have not had their function as carriers of the next generation as a major consideration in their lives and careers. Quite a lot of other 'they have/are nots'.
I am actually very sympathetic to those, very few, people who genuinely feel that they inhabit the wrong bodies and have a godchild who is transitioning (female to male) and who has been through a mental hell on the way to deciding this. S/he will never, however be a 'real' man and deserves love and understanding in this area.
So, I've thought a lot about all this, have some knowledge and great sympathy - but a trans-woman is not, and never can be, a woman.
Sir Keir appears to be jumping on a bandwaggon.
I am actually very sympathetic to those, very few, people who genuinely feel that they inhabit the wrong bodies and have a godchild who is transitioning (female to male) and who has been through a mental hell on the way to deciding this. S/he will never, however be a 'real' man and deserves love and understanding in this area.
So, I've thought a lot about all this, have some knowledge and great sympathy - but a trans-woman is not, and never can be, a woman.
Sir Keir appears to be jumping on a bandwaggon.
NI
//As soon as you steal a bottle of vodka from Tesco’s it is a fact that you are guilty of theft. You may never be apprehended and convicted, but you are guilty nonetheless. But not in the eyes of the law. //
No. That's very far from the truth. You cannot 'steal' a bottle of vodka from Tesco unless it can be proven that you've stolen it. Proof is what jurisprudence relies on.
As a society we have to base our decisions on guilty or innocence on what an be proven - by law. It's not up to us to second guess to courts.
//As soon as you steal a bottle of vodka from Tesco’s it is a fact that you are guilty of theft. You may never be apprehended and convicted, but you are guilty nonetheless. But not in the eyes of the law. //
No. That's very far from the truth. You cannot 'steal' a bottle of vodka from Tesco unless it can be proven that you've stolen it. Proof is what jurisprudence relies on.
As a society we have to base our decisions on guilty or innocence on what an be proven - by law. It's not up to us to second guess to courts.
NJ
//Only male people should use the pronoun “he” and male humans cannot give birth.//
What it means to be a man or a woman is not fixed. There exist cisgender females who do not menstruate, live without ovaries and a uterus, and live without breasts.
Some cisgender males cannot ejaculate sperm, cannot grow beards or any body hair. No one can decide if a person is male or female based on an arbitrary list of what components their body does or does not possess.
And 2% of the population are born intersex (or with genitalia that doesn’t fit the male/female binary).
This is a the same amount of green-eyed people worldwide.
//Only male people should use the pronoun “he” and male humans cannot give birth.//
What it means to be a man or a woman is not fixed. There exist cisgender females who do not menstruate, live without ovaries and a uterus, and live without breasts.
Some cisgender males cannot ejaculate sperm, cannot grow beards or any body hair. No one can decide if a person is male or female based on an arbitrary list of what components their body does or does not possess.
And 2% of the population are born intersex (or with genitalia that doesn’t fit the male/female binary).
This is a the same amount of green-eyed people worldwide.
SP. //You cannot 'steal' a bottle of vodka from Tesco unless it can be proven that you've stolen it.//
What utter tripe. Getting caught is irrelevant. The act of stealing renders a thief a thief.
Atheist. //Is it really about toilets and changing rooms? Is it something to do with sex attackers? I'd like to hear an explanation.//
It's about all of that and more. Women have fought and died for recognition and now, suddenly, their place in society is being undermined and hijacked by people who, frankly, don't seem to know whether they're coming or going. Not only are we expected in some quarters to abandon the word 'women' in favour of 'people who menstruate', we now have the word 'mother' being replaced by 'people who give birth'. Well, like or lump it, people who menstruate are women, as are people who give birth.
As for toilets, etc., if women aren't expected to care, why does the trans community? Oh, yes. I know. Real women don't matter.
And labels? If people want labels they should stick to attaching them to themselves. I am not 'cisgender' - I am doing the fashionable thing and self-identifying …. as a normal woman.
What utter tripe. Getting caught is irrelevant. The act of stealing renders a thief a thief.
Atheist. //Is it really about toilets and changing rooms? Is it something to do with sex attackers? I'd like to hear an explanation.//
It's about all of that and more. Women have fought and died for recognition and now, suddenly, their place in society is being undermined and hijacked by people who, frankly, don't seem to know whether they're coming or going. Not only are we expected in some quarters to abandon the word 'women' in favour of 'people who menstruate', we now have the word 'mother' being replaced by 'people who give birth'. Well, like or lump it, people who menstruate are women, as are people who give birth.
As for toilets, etc., if women aren't expected to care, why does the trans community? Oh, yes. I know. Real women don't matter.
And labels? If people want labels they should stick to attaching them to themselves. I am not 'cisgender' - I am doing the fashionable thing and self-identifying …. as a normal woman.
//No. That's very far from the truth. You cannot 'steal' a bottle of vodka from Tesco unless it can be proven that you've stolen it..//
Don’ be ridiculous. By that token, if somebody breaks into your house and steals your valuables, they haven’t been stolen because you can’t prove who did it. The burglar didn’t steal them because you can’t prove that he did. So you shouldn’t fret and in any case you cannot make a claim on your house insurance because nobody has stolen anything. As soon as the goods are taken without the owner’s consent the crime has been committed and the perpetrator is guilty. There may not be evidence to prove that to the high standard needed in court, but he is guilty nonetheless. Anyway, we digress.
//What it means to be a man or a woman is not fixed. There exist cisgender females who do not menstruate, live without ovaries and a uterus, and live without breasts.//
Indeed there are. But the vast, vast majority of so-called transgender people do not suffer from those conditions (as I tried to make clear in my earlier post). “Ryan”, who was cited as an example, is probably one of the few who does (but who knows, we only have what we’ve read to go on). The issue is that the problems being suffered by this extremely small minority are being used to justify gender reidentification for people who do not. Particularly worrying is the way this propaganda is being directed towards younger people.
If a man wants to dress as a woman, put on some makeup and grow his hair long, all power to his elbow. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But he is not a woman, whatever he says he is. It’s reached the point where we have to accept that “because I’ve said it, it is true” (i.e. gender self-identification). Well I’ve got news – it’s not true. For the vast majority of so-called transgender people, their sex at birth should define their gender. Because they choose to behave in manner at odds with their sex is no reason why it should be accepted that they have assumed the mantle of a “woman” or of a “man” and it is certainly no reason why people who do not accept that should be vilified. It also no reason why the terms "man" and (particularly) "woman" should be consigned to the dustbin. The vast majority of male transgender people are not women - they are men pretending to be women. They may have a genuine reason for wanting to do so, but it doesn't make them women. And it doesn't justify the ridiculous terms we are being asked to accept as necessary when the simple word "woman" will do.
//I'm disappointed you'd use the dressing up box comment.//
I’m sure you’ll get over your disappointment. Unfortunately for the vast majority of people unhappy with their sex at birth, that’s what it amounts to. As I said, it doesn’t bother me at all – until I am told that I must accept that a person with a penis is a woman, because he said so.
Don’ be ridiculous. By that token, if somebody breaks into your house and steals your valuables, they haven’t been stolen because you can’t prove who did it. The burglar didn’t steal them because you can’t prove that he did. So you shouldn’t fret and in any case you cannot make a claim on your house insurance because nobody has stolen anything. As soon as the goods are taken without the owner’s consent the crime has been committed and the perpetrator is guilty. There may not be evidence to prove that to the high standard needed in court, but he is guilty nonetheless. Anyway, we digress.
//What it means to be a man or a woman is not fixed. There exist cisgender females who do not menstruate, live without ovaries and a uterus, and live without breasts.//
Indeed there are. But the vast, vast majority of so-called transgender people do not suffer from those conditions (as I tried to make clear in my earlier post). “Ryan”, who was cited as an example, is probably one of the few who does (but who knows, we only have what we’ve read to go on). The issue is that the problems being suffered by this extremely small minority are being used to justify gender reidentification for people who do not. Particularly worrying is the way this propaganda is being directed towards younger people.
If a man wants to dress as a woman, put on some makeup and grow his hair long, all power to his elbow. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But he is not a woman, whatever he says he is. It’s reached the point where we have to accept that “because I’ve said it, it is true” (i.e. gender self-identification). Well I’ve got news – it’s not true. For the vast majority of so-called transgender people, their sex at birth should define their gender. Because they choose to behave in manner at odds with their sex is no reason why it should be accepted that they have assumed the mantle of a “woman” or of a “man” and it is certainly no reason why people who do not accept that should be vilified. It also no reason why the terms "man" and (particularly) "woman" should be consigned to the dustbin. The vast majority of male transgender people are not women - they are men pretending to be women. They may have a genuine reason for wanting to do so, but it doesn't make them women. And it doesn't justify the ridiculous terms we are being asked to accept as necessary when the simple word "woman" will do.
//I'm disappointed you'd use the dressing up box comment.//
I’m sure you’ll get over your disappointment. Unfortunately for the vast majority of people unhappy with their sex at birth, that’s what it amounts to. As I said, it doesn’t bother me at all – until I am told that I must accept that a person with a penis is a woman, because he said so.
NJ
Innocent until proven guilty.
The person who breaks into my house and takes something hasn't stolen it until it can be proved. Under those circumstances, he or she could've easily broken into my house to take back an item that I had stolen from him or hear.
If the case came to court and it was proven that this was the case, then he or she didn't steal it.
Actually, it wouldn't come to court.
naomi24 - your comment at is amongst the stupidest things you've ever written on this board - and that's up against some pretty strong competition.
//Women have fought and died for recognition//
And so have transgendered women. And not a single women has ever died in the fight for the right to use female-only toilets.
//ot only are we expected in some quarters to abandon the word 'women' in favour of 'people who menstruate'//
No you're not. You're not expected to do or say anything. If you fill out a form which contains that term so what?
You aren't mandated to use that term with your kids (if you have any or indeed if you are a woman...there's no way to tell on this board).
If your child called you mum, you don't have to say "Shhh...it's person who menstruates!"
You've clambered up on your high horse for yet another canter around the Indignity Stables.
NJ - you've see newspaper headlines with the word "alleged" in them when reporting on a court case right?
You know why don't you?
It's because until proven in a court of law, someone is only alleged to have committed a crime.
//If a man wants to dress as a woman, put on some makeup and grow his hair long//
What you're talking about is 'social transitioning'. There's a lot more to it than that.
//The vast majority of male transgender people are not women - they are men pretending to be women.//
That's an interesting conclusion. What data are you referring to?
Innocent until proven guilty.
The person who breaks into my house and takes something hasn't stolen it until it can be proved. Under those circumstances, he or she could've easily broken into my house to take back an item that I had stolen from him or hear.
If the case came to court and it was proven that this was the case, then he or she didn't steal it.
Actually, it wouldn't come to court.
naomi24 - your comment at is amongst the stupidest things you've ever written on this board - and that's up against some pretty strong competition.
//Women have fought and died for recognition//
And so have transgendered women. And not a single women has ever died in the fight for the right to use female-only toilets.
//ot only are we expected in some quarters to abandon the word 'women' in favour of 'people who menstruate'//
No you're not. You're not expected to do or say anything. If you fill out a form which contains that term so what?
You aren't mandated to use that term with your kids (if you have any or indeed if you are a woman...there's no way to tell on this board).
If your child called you mum, you don't have to say "Shhh...it's person who menstruates!"
You've clambered up on your high horse for yet another canter around the Indignity Stables.
NJ - you've see newspaper headlines with the word "alleged" in them when reporting on a court case right?
You know why don't you?
It's because until proven in a court of law, someone is only alleged to have committed a crime.
//If a man wants to dress as a woman, put on some makeup and grow his hair long//
What you're talking about is 'social transitioning'. There's a lot more to it than that.
//The vast majority of male transgender people are not women - they are men pretending to be women.//
That's an interesting conclusion. What data are you referring to?
naomi24
Not claptrap.
A different viewpoint.
Also - look up the word ‘disingenuous’. You’ll see that it makes no sense in the context of that sentence.
It’s important not to use words you don’t quite understand in a discussion - as people may jump to the conclusion you’re not smart enough to engage with.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Not claptrap.
A different viewpoint.
Also - look up the word ‘disingenuous’. You’ll see that it makes no sense in the context of that sentence.
It’s important not to use words you don’t quite understand in a discussion - as people may jump to the conclusion you’re not smart enough to engage with.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
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