ChatterBank1 min ago
A Reasonable Point
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It is estimated that the Famine caused about 1 million deaths between 1845 and 1851 either from starvation or hunger-related disease. A further 1 million Irish people emigrated. This meant that Ireland lost a quarter of its population during those terrible years.
All this whilst the English landowners in Ireland exported many thousands of tons of corn to England.
That looks a reasonable comparison to Ukraine?
All this whilst the English landowners in Ireland exported many thousands of tons of corn to England.
That looks a reasonable comparison to Ukraine?
//But do you see other comparisons?//
The only similarity I see between the two is both were appalling acts of violence perpetrated by a foreign power. For any individual affected the result is the same. But there the similarity ends. The scale of the Russian onslaught, its severity and outcome bear no resemblance to the various slaughters and evictions in Ireland.
The only similarity I see between the two is both were appalling acts of violence perpetrated by a foreign power. For any individual affected the result is the same. But there the similarity ends. The scale of the Russian onslaught, its severity and outcome bear no resemblance to the various slaughters and evictions in Ireland.
//If you listened to what he was saying and were shown pictures of the Troubles it'd fit.//
If you're just comparing the Troubles to the Ukrainian situation, there is definitely no comparison. My comparison stretched back a little further than that. They were a result of conflict between Unionists and Republicans, not a consequence of invading foreign forces.
If you're just comparing the Troubles to the Ukrainian situation, there is definitely no comparison. My comparison stretched back a little further than that. They were a result of conflict between Unionists and Republicans, not a consequence of invading foreign forces.
NJ
"For two decades or even longer, the big neighbour to the north has said 'you have no right to exist, and even sent troops to turn Ukraine into the vassal state lead by a puppet government - possible annex parts of Ukraine. Clearly that's wrong on so many levels. Clearly that denies Ukrainians the possibility of deciding for themselves how they want to live, how they want to exist..."
Similarities.
"For two decades or even longer, the big neighbour to the north has said 'you have no right to exist, and even sent troops to turn Ukraine into the vassal state lead by a puppet government - possible annex parts of Ukraine. Clearly that's wrong on so many levels. Clearly that denies Ukrainians the possibility of deciding for themselves how they want to live, how they want to exist..."
Similarities.
The Irish were treated shamefully and I understand the principle the man is talking about but I don’t think there is a realistic comparison between the two situations. Additionally the ability to separate the individual from the nation is far from unique to the Irish. I think that’s found in most societies.
No - if you listen to the piece again, it's not the two situations that are being compared, but underlying attitude. The interviewee said:
//For two decades or even longer, the big neighbour to the north has said 'you have no right to exist', and even sent troops to turn Ukraine into the vassal state lead by a puppet government - possible annex parts of Ukraine.
Clearly that's wrong on so many levels.
Clearly that denies Ukrainians the possibility of deciding for themselves how they want to live, how they want to exist...//
He's not talking about the specifics of the two conflicts but the hypocrisy of wagging our figures at Russia when arguably the English did pretty much the same to the Irish.
//For two decades or even longer, the big neighbour to the north has said 'you have no right to exist', and even sent troops to turn Ukraine into the vassal state lead by a puppet government - possible annex parts of Ukraine.
Clearly that's wrong on so many levels.
Clearly that denies Ukrainians the possibility of deciding for themselves how they want to live, how they want to exist...//
He's not talking about the specifics of the two conflicts but the hypocrisy of wagging our figures at Russia when arguably the English did pretty much the same to the Irish.
no reason why NJ or anyone here should "recall" what happened to the Irish, but among other incidents since the time of Henry II, Cromwell sent his army to subdue the Irish; they killed possibly half the population (estimates vary widely on this), killed soldiers (including many who had surrendered) and civilians alike, transported thousands as "indentured labour", and left famine and bubonic plague behind them. I wouldn't swear Ukraine is worse off, allowing for technological advances in weaponry.
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