4 Young Men Jailed For 8 Years For Social Media Posts

[Gromit]

They were part of a group chat on Telegram set up after one of their friends was murdered. Obviously they were angry, and possibly wrote things they shouldn’t have. But 8 years for posting their thoughts?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/01/fury-in-manchester-as-black-teenagers-jailed-as-result-of-telegram-chat

[Khandro]

You must never hand out true justice to a black teenager, that's racism.

[New Judge]

Two things already mentioned but which need emphasising:

1. In common with all such reports, we have a seen few paragraphs to explain the outcome of a court case which probably lasted a couple of weeks or maybe more. Quite telling (with regards to the “guilt by association” criticism) is this from the judge (who presumably was privy to all the details which we don’t have):

“But the judge stressed: ‘The defendants were not in a joint enterprise; they were each principal parties playing a full role in committing the offence of a criminal conspiracy either to kill others or to intentionally cause them grievous bodily harm.’ “

From the few details we do have it seems clear that all the defendants were involved in quite a reign of serious violence. That may not be what they were eventually convicted of, but it adds to the evidence that convicted them of conspiracy.

Of course it’s a racist decision because the defendants are black. Life’s a bit tough sometimes. But it doesn’t get any easier if you roam the streets with machetes threatening to kill people.

[Khandro]

//But it doesn’t get any easier if you roam the streets with machetes threatening to kill people.//

Quite, & they are not doing that now, so however you look at it, the streets are safer.

[sp1814]

Khandro

You wrote:

“You must never hand out true justice to a black teenager, that's racism.”

That’s idiotic.

Something only a fool would utter.

[New Judge]

That’s idiotic.

//Something only a fool would utter.//

But Khandro isn't the only fool:

"The public gallery was packed with their friends and family members who sobbed as sentences of eight years were handed down, with one boy’s father shouting: “Racists!" "

[sandyRoe]

Is there any evidence that these 4 were violent?
Would a keyboard warrior who supported militant Islam, for example, have received a similar sentence to the 8 years these young men got?

[sp1814]

NJ

That’s irrelevant.

It’s still a foolish statement to write.

There’s a world of difference between being the father hearing the sentence being handed to his son in court and someone who thinks it’s clever to make a sweeping statement which has no bearing in reality.

It suggests that racism is used as a ‘get out clause’ and this is evidence of lazy thinking rather than an honest reflection the effects of racism within the legal system.

[Togo]

//Is there any evidence that these 4 were violent?//

I suppose it depends on your perceptions of what constitutes violence.

//though three of the defendants went on to violently attack two other boys using machetes and a car as a weapon.//

[sandyRoe]

There's disquiet about the sentences these 4 received because they haven't been convicted of any actual act of violence. Some of their associates were.
Should they all be tarred with the same brush?

[William51]

It is another case of misinterpretation by a jury, and these man had not committed a crime but were jailed all the same. It is part of the virtuous feverishness in the country.

[naomi24]

All these bleeding hearts. They haven't gone to jail for nothing.

[davebro]

no doubt their lawyers will call for a sentencing review and may get it reduced a bit

[Togo]

//and these man had not committed a crime//

Conspiracy to commit murder, and conspiracy to commit grievious bodily harm with intent, including identifying and tracking the would be victims is not criminal?

[FatticusInch]

Maybe the local paper has a better angle on matters?
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/jailed-violent-gang-fixated-revenge-24378018.amp

Sounds to me like the judge decided to send out a pretty strong message to a community plagued by gang violence and it’s good to see proper custodial sentences for such behaviour.
Those convicted certainly seemed committed to such behaviour and have reaped the whirlwind.

[Peter Pedant]

from the article

though three of the defendants went on to violently attack two other boys using machetes and a car as a weapon.

so it was thought crime only in the sense of "Stranger things" - elevn etc

[Peter Pedant]

// Obviously they were angry, and possibly wrote things they shouldn’t have. // - yar
and using a car as a weapon is hardly posting thoughts
( or wasnt when I last saw a car mount a pavement)

[Gromit]

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/jul/04/manchester-mp-to-write-to-minister-over-guilty-by-association-verdicts

[vulcan42]

Is guilty by association different to aiding and abetting?

[sandyRoe]

Naomi,
It is possible to go to jail for nothing. The Birmingham Six and The Guilford Four come to mind.

[naomi24]

I said 'they' haven't gone to jail for nothing.