ChatterBank6 mins ago
Has The Last Brexit Promise Just Died?
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//That sovereignty you so longed for as a result of Brexit now looks like a clapped-out Cortina in contrast to the gleaming Bentley of Brexit that the dodgy car salesmen of said Brexit promised, doesn’t it?//
You seem to be suffering under the illusion that I swallowed the “sales talk” of politicians. I didn’t. I didn’t know for sure really what to expect to result from Brexit (and neither, in truth, did anybody else – see above). But the “sovereignty” you suggest I longed for has been delivered. The UK is no longer subject to control by the EU. What the country chooses to do with that new freedom is up to our government alone. And that was the whole point of the exercise. If it chooses to sign a trade deal which requires some compromises, I’m fine with that. It’s what normal countries do. But normal countries do not have to cobble together a deal that satisfies 28 very disparate nations (and usually ends up delivering to everybody what nobody wants). I’m not really concerned about a percentage point on inflation, companies having to complete a few forms to sell their widgets to the Germans, or travellers having to complete an online visa application when they travel to the EU (as they do when visiting most other normal countries). That’s simply noise which will abate over time.
You seem to be suffering under the illusion that I swallowed the “sales talk” of politicians. I didn’t. I didn’t know for sure really what to expect to result from Brexit (and neither, in truth, did anybody else – see above). But the “sovereignty” you suggest I longed for has been delivered. The UK is no longer subject to control by the EU. What the country chooses to do with that new freedom is up to our government alone. And that was the whole point of the exercise. If it chooses to sign a trade deal which requires some compromises, I’m fine with that. It’s what normal countries do. But normal countries do not have to cobble together a deal that satisfies 28 very disparate nations (and usually ends up delivering to everybody what nobody wants). I’m not really concerned about a percentage point on inflation, companies having to complete a few forms to sell their widgets to the Germans, or travellers having to complete an online visa application when they travel to the EU (as they do when visiting most other normal countries). That’s simply noise which will abate over time.
'The UK is no longer subject to control by the EU'
No, we just incorporated every EU law into UK law to cut out the middle men.
'EU legislation which applied directly or indirectly to the UK before 11.00 p.m. on 31 December 2020 has been retained in UK law as a form of domestic legislation known as ‘retained EU legislation’
https:/
No, we just incorporated every EU law into UK law to cut out the middle men.
'EU legislation which applied directly or indirectly to the UK before 11.00 p.m. on 31 December 2020 has been retained in UK law as a form of domestic legislation known as ‘retained EU legislation’
https:/
Why are people still backing Brexit when they now admit that there are no benefits to the UK from Brexit?
Brexit has cost the UK billions of pounds in lost exports, and analysis shows that the UK economy as a whole is around 5% lower than it would otherwise be, had we remained EU members – are these people mad?
Brexit has cost the UK billions of pounds in lost exports, and analysis shows that the UK economy as a whole is around 5% lower than it would otherwise be, had we remained EU members – are these people mad?
-- answer removed --
‘ NJ Hasn't really considered any of the pros and cons of Brexit’
NJ has. Often at length.
To quote:
‘ The resumption of control by the UK Parliament of UK’s laws, money, borders and trade. That’s more than enough for me’
‘My reason for leaving is singlefold and simple - I prefer the UK's affairs (including lightbulbs and vacuum cleaners) to be determined by the UK Parliament and not by unelected foreign civil servants’
‘….. the EU is not simply a trading bloc. It is a political construction, with a Parliament (such that it is) and legislation which claims supremacy over its members’ laws and which is adjudicated by a foreign court. It claims to have a foreign policy which often may not concur with that of its members and it has established embassies across the world. If acquiescence to all this is the price of “easy and tariff free” trade, it Is too high a price’
There are many many more.
————————————-
‘ Which of course, Zacs, makes it UK law which can be revoked if and when we see fit.’
And how many have been revoked to date, since we left, NJ?
NJ has. Often at length.
To quote:
‘ The resumption of control by the UK Parliament of UK’s laws, money, borders and trade. That’s more than enough for me’
‘My reason for leaving is singlefold and simple - I prefer the UK's affairs (including lightbulbs and vacuum cleaners) to be determined by the UK Parliament and not by unelected foreign civil servants’
‘….. the EU is not simply a trading bloc. It is a political construction, with a Parliament (such that it is) and legislation which claims supremacy over its members’ laws and which is adjudicated by a foreign court. It claims to have a foreign policy which often may not concur with that of its members and it has established embassies across the world. If acquiescence to all this is the price of “easy and tariff free” trade, it Is too high a price’
There are many many more.
————————————-
‘ Which of course, Zacs, makes it UK law which can be revoked if and when we see fit.’
And how many have been revoked to date, since we left, NJ?
//And how many have been revoked to date, since we left, NJ?//
No idea. Probably none, but whether we’ve used the facility or not is of no importance – that’s up to the UK government. It’s the fact that we can that is important, but that’s something, it seems, that some people have difficulty grasping.
//What types of EU foreign policies do not require agreement by all its members…//
Take a look at this, Corby:
https:/
“In her first State of the Union speech, and in the section of the speech most applauded by the European Parliament, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen called for the use of qualified majority voting (QMV) in areas such as sanctions and human rights.”
There’s much more to it than that opening paragraph, but reading on, there is no doubt that the requirement for unanimity in many areas of what the EU has assumed as its competences – including foreign policy - will move to QMV. Not, of course, in one hit. That’s not how the EU does things. Instead it will be achieved “salami style”, each step in itself only a small change from the status quo, but collectively the small changes adding up to massive movements of power away from national governments.
//…and do you have examples where the UK did not support a foreign policy adopted by the EU?//
No. As above, it’s not what is actually done, but what can be done that is important. Until recently the idea that QMV would extend to foreign policy was not a (publicised) consideration. If you're happy to see your country's foreign policy determined by foreigners then the EU is the place for you because it is clear that QMV will extend to an ever increasing number of areas - including foreign policy (salami style, natch).
No idea. Probably none, but whether we’ve used the facility or not is of no importance – that’s up to the UK government. It’s the fact that we can that is important, but that’s something, it seems, that some people have difficulty grasping.
//What types of EU foreign policies do not require agreement by all its members…//
Take a look at this, Corby:
https:/
“In her first State of the Union speech, and in the section of the speech most applauded by the European Parliament, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen called for the use of qualified majority voting (QMV) in areas such as sanctions and human rights.”
There’s much more to it than that opening paragraph, but reading on, there is no doubt that the requirement for unanimity in many areas of what the EU has assumed as its competences – including foreign policy - will move to QMV. Not, of course, in one hit. That’s not how the EU does things. Instead it will be achieved “salami style”, each step in itself only a small change from the status quo, but collectively the small changes adding up to massive movements of power away from national governments.
//…and do you have examples where the UK did not support a foreign policy adopted by the EU?//
No. As above, it’s not what is actually done, but what can be done that is important. Until recently the idea that QMV would extend to foreign policy was not a (publicised) consideration. If you're happy to see your country's foreign policy determined by foreigners then the EU is the place for you because it is clear that QMV will extend to an ever increasing number of areas - including foreign policy (salami style, natch).
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