Fighting Talk?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/scotland-and-snp-will-find-another-way-to-independence-nicola-sturgeon-vows-12754088

[naomi24]

She’s certainly obsessed.

[THECORBYLOON]

DD, it has been claimed multiple times that the Union is voluntary.

In Ulster, there is legislation allowing a Border Poll which could result in Ulster leaving the Union.

What process is there for Scotland or Wales to leave the UK?

[THECORBYLOON]

I should have added "if the UK Government does not allow a referendum?"

If a party to a voluntary agreement cannot leave it without the agreement of another party in that agreement, how is it voluntary?

[perseverer]

Corby's 2 posts essentially cover the question which was repeatedly asked at pmqs yesterday and the reason it was repeatedly asked was that the PM did not give an answer to that question.

[naomi24]

Corby, Good question.

[Togo]

//What process is there for Scotland or Wales to leave the UK?//

The same one that allows England to leave. As yet the only Country of all the Union members never to have been offered the choice. Try us do. Then the others will not need to vote and will have not blackmailing leverage to threaten with.

[Old_Geezer]

It has to be mutually voluntary ?

Anyway the first step on the way out is to actually win the referendum (already) held so that the issue may be considered further. What will always be unacceptable is continually asking the people the same question again until they give the answer the fanatic desires.

[Togo]

//If a party to a voluntary agreement cannot leave it without the agreement of another party in that agreement, how is it voluntary?//

The populace is given the chance to exercise that choice. It is called believe it or not ... a referendum.

[THECORBYLOON]

"The populace is given the chance to exercise that choice. It is called believe it or not ... a referendum."

That referendum can take place only with the consent of the UK Government.

[Togo]

As I said the only Country who has not been granted a referendum, which meets with all current legal criteria, is England. Or would it be better to hold a UK referendum on the question and poll everyone at the same time. Yes please. Then hold it every year until England is free.

[douglas9401]

Somebody's had wine with dinner.

[Togo]

Lucky them (unless you are boasting again), I am just about to do the same.

[Gramps82]

I find it strange that she wants to leave one organisation that currently funds her ability to offer free prescriptions etc, so that she can join another organisation which will require her to pay large sums of money into their coffers.

[THECORBYLOON]

"As I said the only Country who has not been granted a referendum, which meets with all current legal criteria, is England."

The Westminster Parliament is, in effect, the Parliament of England since it and the UK Government Departments are responsible for matters applicable only to England.

If a party campaigned for England to leave the UK and had a majority in the UK Parliament in favour of that policy, who could prevent them from having a referendum on the matter?

[Togo]

//The Westminster Parliament is, in effect, the Parliament of England since it and the UK Government Departments are responsible for matters applicable only to England.//

More nonsense and misinformation.
""There has not been a government of England since 1707 when the Kingdom of England ceased to exist as a sovereign state, as it merged with the Kingdom of Scotland to form the Kingdom of Great Britain.[1] The Kingdom of Great Britain continued from 1707 until 1801 when it merged with the Kingdom of Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which itself became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK) in 1922 (in reality; in name in 1927) upon independence for most of the island of Ireland. The UK since then has gone through significant change to its system of government, with devolved parliaments, assemblies and governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. England, however, remains under the full jurisdiction, on all matters, of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the UK government as no devolved administration has been created for England within the new structure."" Wiki.

Note that "No Devolved Administration Has Been Created For England!"
The Ministry of housing, NHS England and the likes of The Ministry of Communities and Local Government are hardly devolved Government. When does the English Parliament hold its debates without MPs from the devolved UK Countries?

[Canary42]

/// You keep repeating that claim yet you have never been able to substantiate it with even a single example. ///

Wild claims persistently repeated without evidence are par for the course from the Japanese Bomber.

[JimF]

"When does the English Parliament hold its debates without MPs from the devolved UK Countries?"

From 2015 to 2020, the House of Commons:
https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/english-votes-for-english-law-evel/

[Togo]

Did the Scottish, Ulster, and Welsh MPs get to vote in that Jim? Or was it just English MPs?

[JimF]

Just members for English constituencies, plus Welsh if it looked like the government might be defeated.

Hence, "English votes for English laws".

[THECORBYLOON]

It was known as "EVEL".

TOGO, there are a couple of important words in my post, "in effect".

Devolved matters are dealt with by the devolved governments. Which government deals with the English NHS, for example? Would that not be the Department for Health and Social Care in the UK Government?

"The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) is a department of His Majesty's Government responsible for government policy on health and adult social care matters in England, along with a few elements of the same matters which are not otherwise devolved to the Scottish Government, Welsh Government or Northern Ireland Executive. It oversees the English National Health Service (NHS).

The department is led by the secretary of state for health and social care with three ministers of state and three parliamentary under-secretaries of state.”