Grand National

[ynnafymmi]

The hooray-henry scum of the earth disrupting the Peoples Race.Should the mumsies and popsies of these aerosols demand their little poppets get a life or get a real job?

[andy-hughes]

Jno - I'm unsure what your point is.

My point is that horse racing does not compare with cock and bullfighting, where death is the planned and intended outcome

The fact that Portugal does not always kill its bulls does not gainsay my point in the slightest.

[andy-hughes]

YMB - you need to understand that objective analysis does not indicate callousness.

[sandyRoe]

If National Hunt racing vanished tomorrow there'd still be a multi million pound flat racing industry. There are very few horses injured on the flat.

[jno]

what I'm saying is that death is not the "planned and intended outcome". Badly wounded ones are put down, but those still in good shape go to the vet.

[Ken4155]

Sandy, if NH racing vanished tomorrow, what do you propose is done with all the NH horses?

[MissTerious2]

Atheist, if youre referring to 18.42 on Sunday, would like to add I now remember the young mans name - Eckhart. Everyone called him Eggy. He escaped back to Germany!

Are you being serious or inferring I went off race track!

I ask because my counsellor told me just a few weeks back that I should start writing!

[Ellipsis]

If there was no horse racing, horses would still break their legs.

Even undomesticated horses break legs, but I'm not clear whether the protesters want no horseracing or literally no horse riding and domestic horses.

[andy-hughes]

jno - // what I'm saying is that death is not the "planned and intended outcome". Badly wounded ones are put down, but those still in good shape go to the vet. //

You're really not helping your case here.

You are saying that 'death is not the planned and intended outcome', and you then go on to advise that the badly wounded ones are put down, and the less badly wounded ones are patched up to fight another day, which means that the entertainment of their death is simply postponed until another time.

By virtue of your own observation, bulls are hurt at least until they need veterinary attention, or are put put down, assuming they survive their time in the bullring long enough to be brought backstage and killed there.

And as you know, Portuguese bullfighting is nowhere near as popular, or as gory and fatal, as the Spanish version, so that removes it from a valid comparison with British horse racing, where absolutely no hard to the animals is intentional, or indeed, the purpose of what they do in the first place.

I think you should quit while you're behind.

[naomi24]

You can’t compare bullfighting - even in Portugal (and I have seen it there and in Spain) - to horse racing. Bulls are goaded and tortured for the pleasure of the spectator. Horses race and more often than not come to no harm. I don’t like it much, but that’s what happens.

I agree with Barsel. I don’t like boxing either.

[sandyRoe]

Ken4155,
I'm sure you already know jump horses don't go to stud or enjoy a long retirement.
After the abattoir there's the pet food industry or, perhaps, Tesco.

[Barsel]

Andy //comparison with British horse racing, where absolutely no hard to the animals is intentional,//
No, not intentional but always a possibility.

[jno]

the less badly wounded ones are patched up to fight another day

andy, they are not.

They go home again and are put out to stud. So they're in much the same position as horses at the Grand National: they are not expected to die, and nobody is trying to kill them, but sometimes they're put down if badly injured.

[naomi24]

They do hurt them intentionally though, Jno, even in Portugal. It really is barbaric.

[Atheist]

Miss. 18:42, Sun 16th.
It's just that you wrote a lovely little story; well structured.

[jno]

I'm not defending it, naomi. just pointing out that killing bulls isn't always the aim, despite what some think.

[naomi24]

Jno, the point is horses are not entered into races with the specific intention of causing them harm. Any harm they suffer is accidental. That doesn’t apply to bulls entering the bull ring. We know that if they do come out they are, at the very least, going to be dripping in their own blood.

[andy-hughes]

jno - // I'm not defending it, naomi. just pointing out that killing bulls isn't always the aim, despite what some think. //

No matter how you try and spin it, you can't get away from the fact that the two sports are entirely different in their approach, and outcome.

Horse 'racing', bull 'fighting', - the clue is in the names.

[jno]

on the contrary, the outcome is the same: most animals survive, a few die at human hands.

[andy-hughes]

jno - // on the contrary, the outcome is the same: most animals survive, a few die at human hands. //

It's not the outcome that matters - it's the purpose in the first place.

Horses race to win a race, bulls and cocks fight to stay alive.

I really can't make the difference any plainer than that.

[andy-hughes]

jno - // most animals survive, a few die at human hands. //

I have watched endless numbers of horses racing on television in my life, and seen maybe two or three who were unfortunate enough to fall, and have to be put down.

I was unfortunate enough to be taken to a Spanish bullfight when I was a child.

Six bulls fought, none of them lived - but then, their deaths were entirely the object of the exercise.

If you really think there are viable comparisons between those two scenarios, then I will have to end my input here.