Shane Mcgowan-Henry Kissinger

[ynnafymmi]

Just asking like,but i seem to get the feeling that the death of an English pop singer(McGowan) seems more worthy of respect than the death of a world statesman(Kissinger).Any views either ways folks?

[sandyRoe]

"For all the harm that ere I done

Alas it was to none but me...".

That could be on Shane's headstone.  It definitely couldn't be on Kissinger's.

[Ringlet]

Shane McGowan was more relevant to "ordinary" people's lives.

Therefore, we, the"ordinary" people give more weight and importance to his loss.

[fiveleaves]

In very different ways both were controversial characters. I doubt that many people under 60 would know that much about Kissinger as his era was about 1968-1975.

Shane McGowan has more relevance to younger people and he was English/Irish and not American

[ichkeria]

"Born in England Went to school in England Lived most of his life in EnglandMade most of his music in EnglandBut he is as Irish as Guinness...apparently."

And why not? There really is no contradiction there: irony maybe.

[ynnafymmi]

@21.25.Thats what i was saying,Ichy.MacGowan was primarily an English pop singer.Case closed.Thanks for all your answers folks.

[ichkeria]

Rubbish: someone actually posted on this thread earlier about his parents "leaving Ireland to find a better life in England" In fact his parents were comparatively well-to-do and were  actually visiting relatives in Kent when his mum went into labour unexpectedly. He spent most of the first 13 years in Tipperary (hence the Irish accent) and his dad only moved back to Kent when he was a teenager. 
But as I posted earlier: he definitely qualified to play for England :-)

English, Irish, Anglo-Irish tho what honestly does it matter?

[THECORBYLOON]

Why are you not telling us all about Kissinger instead of banging on and on about MacGowan not being Irish?

[ichkeria]

Shakes head ...

I'm surprised you haven't been wetting yourself over his notorious claim that he wished he'd joined the IRA.

[ichkeria]

Shane MacGowan drumming and dancing 1976

The union jack outfit was a punk fasion of the day. His UKIP campaigning days were at the point ahead of him 😁

I hadn't realised that the original "Fairytale" - tune and lyrics - were actually composed by Jem Finer. MacGowan later changed the lyrics - but the tune presumably is Finer's. And Jem Finer IS English, so there you go!

 

[jourdain2]

Well, someone said about him being more relevant to U.60s and I concur.  I'd never heard of Shane McGowan, although I had heard of The Pogues and knew some of  their music - I wasn't al that keen on it, it was OK.  I didn't know all the details about Kissinger, but he was a well-known figure and always in the news, so  I knew he was important and had some basic knowledge of his doings.

[ichkeria]

There honestly is nothing in common between the two other than that they died almost on the same day.  Comparisons, as they say, are odious. Although you could have a fascinating debate I suppose about who did the greater good. I did like Sandy's quote about the only harm being done being that to oneself. Apt indeed for MacGowan. Probably not in fairness to HK. Shane's partner later wife was a saint. I think the wake might be riotous. ..

[Old_Geezer]

One is the nationality of the nation where one is born.

Citizenship, however, is up for grabs from any nations that offers it.

 

If the guy was born in England then he is English, whether he or anyone else likes it or not. The nationality of his ancestors doesn't come into it.

[royfromaus]

He spent most of the first 13 years in Tipperary (hence the Irish accent)

 

 

🤔

[ichkeria]

By that logic OG the Pogues' bassist was Nigerian 😃

[Hopkirk]

Cliff Richard was born in India. Does that make him Indian?

[ichkeria]

One might court further controversy by pointing out that there is no such thing as either English nationality or citizenship :-)

MacGowan IMO is more Irish than I am despite the fact I was born in Ireland to Irish parents and lived there for the first 20 years of my life 

[royfromaus]

How come he spent so little time in Ireland?

[ichkeria]

When he was 13 his dad got a job as an accountant at C&A in Tunbridge Wells so they moved. 
Famously he got a scholarship to Westminster school but didn't last very long there. How he lasted to 65 given his lifestyle is a great mystery.

If you ask me his riotous early teen and indeed preteen years in Tipperary are probably accounted for by the fact that their village was so isolated. You tend to get away with things more away from the glare of the authorities (so they tell me)

[bednobs]

why does it matter for the purposes of this question, which i think has been fairly adequately answered by ringlet and 5l in my opinion.  Of course, the question is just a front for myffi's somewhat mystifying agenda onthis subject as betrayed by her "ha ha i'm right you're wrong" answer earlier inthe thread which seems slightly bizarre.