Is Ukraine Losing The War?

[naomi24]

I'm watching the news and it's pretty depressing.  

[Hopkirk]

Yes. I think you're right.

 

In the long term Russia loses though. The west won't do business with them now. They can't even get replacement parts for their stolen planes. The rich Russians who want expensive western cars now have to make do with knock offs.

Their economy is ***.

[Hopkirk]

**" was a suggestion of sodomy.

[ichkeria]

Its no secret Ukraine has been struggling since the US started withholding support. The BBC is excellent but they often paint a rather bleak picture. There was an "Is Ukraine losing the war" headline the other week  although the actual article didn't really address that. The US is now spending on weaponly again now but it'll take time for the right weapons to arrive. Sanctions are severely limiting Russia's ability to replace its best misrules and planes. 
Basically everything I posted on a different thread a few weeks back. They've lost 2500 personnel in the last two days. Probably because they are pushing quite hard before the extra help, including the long awaited ATACMS - notably no longer with the restriction they "you can't fire them at Russia"  - starts. 
There has been something of a sea change in the attitude of rebublicans most notably speaker Johnson: a realisation that we cannot afford to fail here. Trump continues to complain that Europe isn't doing enough, but someone should show him these figures : 

https://ibb.co/vcGpTBV

[douglas9401]

Wow! "The BBC is excellent".

What happened there? 🤨

[Untitled]

i fear that it is. ukraine cannot afford to replace its personnel losses which have been enormous. 

[Old_Geezer]

Ah, this source you refer to https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

 

Seems to me that losses are expected. There's been a stagnation and minor withdrawal but things are changing and it's unwise to spread unfounded doom & gloom at this point. It doesn't help.

[ichkeria]

Ukraine's losses proportionate to its population have been far less than Russia's. Although Russia has mobilised an estimated 30,000 personnel monthly they are losing roughly that number monthly! They have an advantage in that they can effectively bribe poorer citizens with promises of high wages - probably in the knowledge that most won't have to be paid. Even at that, wages and compensation to bereaved relatives are not being paid at all in many cases. 
In addition, the quality of these mobilised personnel is poor largely because they don't have the resources or the time to train them properly.

Think of a man bludgeoning a brick wall with a dodgy sledge hammer. Eventually the hammer will break long before the wall does.

[Untitled]

if the bloke has twenty million dodgy sledgehammers and doesn't mind breaking them all then he'll eventually take the wall down though 

russia is losing huge numbers of personnel and material but... it can keep replacing them. it's getting quite a lot of low quality supplies from N Korea too so it can keep matching quality with quantity 

if i were a more evil person and i had a job in the state department i would be quite pleased with how the situation is currently going regardless of whether or not ukraine loses or not... the USA gets to sell boatloads of weaponry to its new NATO partners with the prospect of more to come if the worst happens in ukraine. meanwhile russia is bled white in the killing fields and possibly by a long term occupation. it seems to me that the USA is providing just enough aid to prolong the war and not enough to end it... i wonder if that might be on purpose

[Old_Geezer]

Not just Russia, apparently N. Korea too, and maybe China ? Doesn't mean that preventing Russian aggression isn't important though.

[Khandro]

There seemed to be a celebratory mood in Moscow yesterday with a display of weapons captured from Ukraine with an emphasis on how gallant were their army.

It's incomprehensible how so many Russians believe that it is they who are fighting an aggressor. Such is the power of propaganda.    

[ichkeria]

"if i were a more evil person and i had a job in the state department ...blah blah blah"

You just can't help myself can you. Luckily Labour these days doesn't think that way. If I thought for a moment that it I'd be voting for someone else

[Untitled]

i reckon i'm a lot closer to how the americans actually think ichkeria. i don't think they care very much if ukraine loses or not. i reckon the goal is to strengthen NATO and weaken Russia and the present war is doing that for them admirably. regardless of outcome. 

[ynnafymmi]

Not wanting to invoke Godwins Law again,but where is the new Stauffenberg now we need him now to rid the world of this poisonous serpent Putin?

[Khandro]

^^ one was murdered in Siberia & the other's plane was exploded mid-flight. ☹

[ynnafymmi]

So we hope he marries a local *** and then puts a bullet through his brain Khandro.There must be some way of getting rid of this evil bastrad(who i consider responsible for this latest middle-east squabble also).Someone,anyone?

[ichkeria]

I think you're excused Godwin's law given the parallels with Hitler are obvious. 
As for the US, most Americans don't care unduly why should they but more care than you might think.  

"i reckon the goal is to strengthen NATO and weaken Russia "

That remark makes no sense: you'd think from that that it was NATO that had started this war. If Russia weakens it's its own doing. If NATO is strengthened it's a byproduct of Russia's actions and no one else's 

[ynnafymmi]

Why is the word *** starred out AB mods?Is the word *** now proscribed?

[Raving-Mod]

ynnafymmi the mods have no control over what words aren't allowed and spelling them backwards to get round the filter isn't allowed either so please don't attempt it again.

[Untitled]

"That remark makes no sense: you'd think from that that it was NATO that had started this war"

no not at all. my point simply is that the USA looks after the USA's interests first and I think history has shown that... russia's horrible actions have been a significant boost to those. i do not believe you can assume that the USA is particularly invested in a ukranian victory and i think your confidence that they will now come to the rescue is misplaced. i think it far more likely that they will supply just enough to prolong the war but not enough to end it.