News1 min ago
Cameron proposes a form of military service for 16 year olds
Today it has been announced that 16 year olds can take part in a form of military service for a period of 6 weeks. Do you agree with this and should it be compulsory?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6980830 .stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6980830 .stm
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Short answer: No and no.
Long answer: By 16 the die is pretty much cast. A six week training program won't be enough to turn the life around of someone who doesn't think they have a role to play in society, and will be useless for those kids who do.
I'd prefer a system of 'big brothers' like they have in the US, where you put a permanent 'good influence' into a child's life.
That person would be there to encourage the kid into the right direction. With Cameron's idea, what happens after the six weeks when the kid goes back to the crumbling council estate? Back with their old mates? Back to their useless parents?
Cameron's idea sounds like a Band Aid for a broken leg.
Long answer: By 16 the die is pretty much cast. A six week training program won't be enough to turn the life around of someone who doesn't think they have a role to play in society, and will be useless for those kids who do.
I'd prefer a system of 'big brothers' like they have in the US, where you put a permanent 'good influence' into a child's life.
That person would be there to encourage the kid into the right direction. With Cameron's idea, what happens after the six weeks when the kid goes back to the crumbling council estate? Back with their old mates? Back to their useless parents?
Cameron's idea sounds like a Band Aid for a broken leg.
No, not military service but yes to some sort of community service where 16-18 year olds can learn to give something before they take. Perhaps they could deliver meals on wheels, cut grass in public parks, clean the streets etc. This would give them a sense of responsibility, a wage they have to earn , self respect and self discipline and do good for the community at large. Give them the option of military service but as an ex soldier myself, I feel compulsion to be wrong, my reason being that I would rather be in a dangerous situation somewhere in the world with someone who chose to join the Army rather than hope the preson watching my back was counting down the days/hours till he/she goes home to Blighty
the vast majority of 16 year olds are perfectly law abiding members of society so i see no need to ship everyone off for some sort of military service... i don't think one size fits all when it comes to these sort of things, yes it might help a small minority but it could well hinder and distress those that were doing well in the first place, so i'd be a no to a compulsory programme.
as a form of punishment for persistent young criminals for a short 6 week course might be a good idea provided it involved an introduction into various fields of professional life e.g. engineering, mechanics, building etc as well as soldiering and helped build skills for their released
as a form of punishment for persistent young criminals for a short 6 week course might be a good idea provided it involved an introduction into various fields of professional life e.g. engineering, mechanics, building etc as well as soldiering and helped build skills for their released
Hang on...I've just thought.
Who would pay for this?
It would cost an absolute fortune in admin alone.
And what happens if some of the kids refuse to take part?
Jail?
When you start thinking about the practicalities, I think this is a non-starter.
Also, I absolutely can't see that you can force responsibililty on someone. It just doesn't work like that.
I mean, all of us have a sense of responsibility right (pay mortgage/rent, send our kids to school, work etc), but we didn't have to be told this. Its something that becomes natural because we see it around us and have aspirations.
How do you inspire responsibility in a 16 who sees no future? How do you give a 16 year old a future? Especially one who has no qualifications?
One alternative would be the reintroduction of apprenticeships, coupled with a huge investment in inner cities, tax breaks for new start-ups, and increased support for single parents.
Problem is - this all costs too.
Each and every government since the late 70s have abdicated responsibility for what's happening in the inner cities and this is the result.
It's going to take massive investment, and maybe three generations before we get out of this cycle of depravation.
Who would pay for this?
It would cost an absolute fortune in admin alone.
And what happens if some of the kids refuse to take part?
Jail?
When you start thinking about the practicalities, I think this is a non-starter.
Also, I absolutely can't see that you can force responsibililty on someone. It just doesn't work like that.
I mean, all of us have a sense of responsibility right (pay mortgage/rent, send our kids to school, work etc), but we didn't have to be told this. Its something that becomes natural because we see it around us and have aspirations.
How do you inspire responsibility in a 16 who sees no future? How do you give a 16 year old a future? Especially one who has no qualifications?
One alternative would be the reintroduction of apprenticeships, coupled with a huge investment in inner cities, tax breaks for new start-ups, and increased support for single parents.
Problem is - this all costs too.
Each and every government since the late 70s have abdicated responsibility for what's happening in the inner cities and this is the result.
It's going to take massive investment, and maybe three generations before we get out of this cycle of depravation.
sp1814
one way to pay for it would be to divert the huge investment in inner cities that you mentioned into the wages of the youngsters on the scheme and put them to work on inner city projects.
As for what do we do to those that refuse to take part, that one is simple, they don't get paid, no benefits, no work from an employer unless they prove they have completed their service to the community, their families will only support them for so long, then they will need to do their service.
one way to pay for it would be to divert the huge investment in inner cities that you mentioned into the wages of the youngsters on the scheme and put them to work on inner city projects.
As for what do we do to those that refuse to take part, that one is simple, they don't get paid, no benefits, no work from an employer unless they prove they have completed their service to the community, their families will only support them for so long, then they will need to do their service.
johnlambert
That would cause another problem...you'd be depressing the labour market for unskilled workers. Why employ someone to sweep roads, or remove graffitti when you can get the cheap labour of a 16 year old.
You'd increase unemployment in the very section of society who have the most limited amount of opportunities.
It happened with the youth training scheme back in the 80s.
That would cause another problem...you'd be depressing the labour market for unskilled workers. Why employ someone to sweep roads, or remove graffitti when you can get the cheap labour of a 16 year old.
You'd increase unemployment in the very section of society who have the most limited amount of opportunities.
It happened with the youth training scheme back in the 80s.
Ok, they do those jobs part time whilst learning a job, like they do in the Army, I went in with an O level in biology and left with a paramedic qualification, if i wanted to, I could have trained as a nurse, all sponsored by the M.O.D. There is no easy solution, but at least the Conservatives are trying to address the problem with something that (it would appear) has wide public approval.
The article talks about a 6 week program.
quote......
The course would include one week's residential course, four weeks of community service and a week's physical challenge - like Army training or trying to climb the Three Peaks.
It could include work with the elderly or travelling overseas to developing countries.
....unquote
They're not talking about sending them to Afghanistan or making them sweep the streets for 12 months. It's about giving teenagers something useful to do, whereby they can earn a bit of money, and perhaps gain an insight into or be inspired by something outside their own little bubble.
They're always complaining about having nothing to do.
What can be the harm?
quote......
The course would include one week's residential course, four weeks of community service and a week's physical challenge - like Army training or trying to climb the Three Peaks.
It could include work with the elderly or travelling overseas to developing countries.
....unquote
They're not talking about sending them to Afghanistan or making them sweep the streets for 12 months. It's about giving teenagers something useful to do, whereby they can earn a bit of money, and perhaps gain an insight into or be inspired by something outside their own little bubble.
They're always complaining about having nothing to do.
What can be the harm?
If they do bring this in it should be compulsory. Why? When they last had compulsory military service the toffs had remarkable methods in avoiding it. So again this time this scheme will be aimed at the delinquent, the people in trouble with the police and the unemployed but not the well heeled who would also be needed to create some balance.
Make it compulsory? Do me a favour...
It's wishful thinking of the highest order to think that compulsory service would turn out rounded, responsible individuals. What it would produce is a generation of youths who f*cking hate the powers-that-be and resent authority even more than they did before. It's just idiotic. Don't people consider reverse psychology any more?
Fortunately for Cameron, he's not suggesting it should be compulsory. What he's suggesting is, basically, scouts. Well done, Dave.
It's wishful thinking of the highest order to think that compulsory service would turn out rounded, responsible individuals. What it would produce is a generation of youths who f*cking hate the powers-that-be and resent authority even more than they did before. It's just idiotic. Don't people consider reverse psychology any more?
Fortunately for Cameron, he's not suggesting it should be compulsory. What he's suggesting is, basically, scouts. Well done, Dave.
Why? if it's the delinquents, the people in trouble with the police and the unemployed that are the ones most in need of compulsion then, in my opinion they should be the ones it's aimed at. That's not to say that in my opinion the middle and upper classes should avoid it, off course not, but they are the ones who generaly finish school, go to university and embark on a career, not sit and idle on the DSS or whatever it's called these days
Scout's or Duke of Edinburgh, except they don't get paid for doing that do they.
Give most 16 to 18 year olds a bit of credit, they are not all violent thugs, most are still studying to become the next Police Officers, Dr's Nurses, Teachers etc, etc. Another chunk are working and putting back into society already.
I personnaly would not let my 16 year old daughter attend such a course, she has her bronze D of E and will be doing her silver this year, so is giving to the community at a young age. It is surely up to schools to organise things like this for youngsters to do, and for parents to ensure that their children are given the pastrol care they need at school. If not then move em to a school that does, put your hand in your pocket, and pay for your kids education, but don't expect us all to pay for a probably usless 6 weeks.
Give most 16 to 18 year olds a bit of credit, they are not all violent thugs, most are still studying to become the next Police Officers, Dr's Nurses, Teachers etc, etc. Another chunk are working and putting back into society already.
I personnaly would not let my 16 year old daughter attend such a course, she has her bronze D of E and will be doing her silver this year, so is giving to the community at a young age. It is surely up to schools to organise things like this for youngsters to do, and for parents to ensure that their children are given the pastrol care they need at school. If not then move em to a school that does, put your hand in your pocket, and pay for your kids education, but don't expect us all to pay for a probably usless 6 weeks.
I think it would be a very good idea. It seems that all discipline at home and at school for various reasons,has gone out of the window.
We never had this 'yobbish'behaviour when there was National Service.
I definitely think this military service should be compulsory but I dont think that 6 weeks is long enough to instill discipline in some of today's youngsters. They all seem to realise that they can get away with unsocial behaviour. The Courts dont give enough punishment.
We never had this 'yobbish'behaviour when there was National Service.
I definitely think this military service should be compulsory but I dont think that 6 weeks is long enough to instill discipline in some of today's youngsters. They all seem to realise that they can get away with unsocial behaviour. The Courts dont give enough punishment.
If done properly, and for a much longer period than 6 weeks, yes. I think it would be pointless if it wasn't compulsory though.. I'm not naive enough to think it would cure all evils, but for those 16 year olds that haven't completely immersed themselves in anarchy, it may help them focus better on what direction they may want to take.
It certainly wouldn't harm anybody, would it?
It certainly wouldn't harm anybody, would it?
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