Crosswords3 mins ago
what do others think ?
It really makes my blood boil to read yet another "millionaire" is funding the McCanns! Why are they so special in terms of being parents of missing children? What about all the other missing children? Why do they deserve everyones pity when others are long forgotten? What about the �1m in the Madeleine fund that they "wont" or "cant" use? Is that in a high interest rate account somewhere earning lots of interest to be creamed off?They both have jobs Why don't they go back to work and earn some money like all the others
have to? It's never about Madeleine - its always all about THEM! OK Rant over - just wondered what others thought!
have to? It's never about Madeleine - its always all about THEM! OK Rant over - just wondered what others thought!
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Has anyone other than me looked at the links provided by Annemollie on the first page.? If not, please look at them . No one has mentioned them. I defy anyone to look at those and then refuse to accept that there is a massive problem with paedophiles in Portugal. And before you all start ganging up on me ( although I have to admit that the people on this thread seem more civilised than some of the threads I have been on regarding this subject) I am sure that Portugal is no worse than any other country when it comes to paedophiles. But you can see a very good motive for the PJs reluctance to go there. But getting back to the original question posed by this thread. No I dont think the McCanna are special at all. I can only applaud their refusal to sit back and wait for the PJ to find Madeleine. I think they realised very quickly that the PJ were not handling Madeleines disappearance in the way that we in Britain have come to expect, when a child is missing . So instead of collapsing and weeping and wailing like people normally do they refused to give in to their feelings and proceeded to get Madeleines face out there. What they and everyone who pitched in to help , from the media to financial backers etc acheived was nothing short of fantastic. There cant be many people in the world who have not heard about Madeleine and knows what she looks like. But you could say that they have become victims of their own success. No, Madeleine is not more important than any other child who has gone missing ,but to her parents she is. They have said all along that this campaign was about Madeleine, . They did not ask for the focus to become them. They have been gagged by the PJ, who seem to have given up the search. It is a shame that all missing children dont get the same attention that this case did. But you can not blame the McCanns for that. I know this-- If my child went missing, the people I would go to for advice, apart from the police ,would be the McCanns.
Chompu - Madeline was there.............then she wasn't.
If you accept that there was NO abduction, then where did Madeline go to, exactly ? And given the close scrutiny to which the McCanns have been subjected I find it utterly implausible that she was spirited away after-the-fact..........
Sambro - my sentiments exactly. And I really fail to see how anybody with a heart, or a modicum of sense or intelligence, can see any 'side' to the McCanns behaviour. I'm utterly baffled.........
If you accept that there was NO abduction, then where did Madeline go to, exactly ? And given the close scrutiny to which the McCanns have been subjected I find it utterly implausible that she was spirited away after-the-fact..........
Sambro - my sentiments exactly. And I really fail to see how anybody with a heart, or a modicum of sense or intelligence, can see any 'side' to the McCanns behaviour. I'm utterly baffled.........
Have you seen the police dossier on the abduction case, Chompu ?
Have they put a tick in the box headed 'no abduction' ?
Or, again, are you basing your opinions on the media reports ?
I really hope that you would approach Jury Service in a more objective frame of mind..........otherwise you'd probably make your decision based on how far apart the accuseds eyes are......
Have they put a tick in the box headed 'no abduction' ?
Or, again, are you basing your opinions on the media reports ?
I really hope that you would approach Jury Service in a more objective frame of mind..........otherwise you'd probably make your decision based on how far apart the accuseds eyes are......
Another thought has come to me with regard to the original question. Perhaps the reason why this tragedy captured the interest of the media and the public , was the fact that this is an unusual occurence ( I may be wrong here) A British child being (allegedly) abducted in a foreign holiday resort. I dont know what the figures are, but an awful lot of children are abducted in this country. Its an awful thing to say, but I beleive that we perhaps get innured to it. Is that the word to use? I cant remember many cases of british children being abducted abroad. I can only think of one myself , and that was Ben Needham ,He was never found. i saw arecent article concerning this, and his mother received a lot of hate mail, still does i think. Vile hate filled messages accusing her of being responsible for his disappearance. All those years ago, the communications were not as good as now. who knows? If they were maybe he might have been found.
No, I obviously haven't seen the police dossier on the missing child case. There has never been any suggestion of evidence of an intruder eg dna or fingerprints etc. I do,however,probably have more experience than you on the subject, having served for 30 years as a police officer and dealt with hundreds of missing persons. As I have stated before on here, never once, whatever the circumstances did a parent say to me 'I think my child's
been abducted'.
As for being objective. I have posted answers on many of the McCanns' threads and if you bothered to look them up you would find that I have never expressed an opinion either way as to their guilt or innocence. I would not base an opinion on media reports either Portuguese or British unless they were from a reputable named source.
My opinion remains the same. I think the McCanns were criminally negligent in leaving their children unattended. I do not know if they are guilty or innocent regarding her disappearance but believe the press releases of the last week from Mitchell are not helping their cause which bothers me.
If I had attended the incident as a police officer, my first reaction would have been that she had wandered off after waking which I believe is exactly how the Portuguese officers reacted. And there is another possibility. Wandered off and abducted on the street by opportunist paedophile.
been abducted'.
As for being objective. I have posted answers on many of the McCanns' threads and if you bothered to look them up you would find that I have never expressed an opinion either way as to their guilt or innocence. I would not base an opinion on media reports either Portuguese or British unless they were from a reputable named source.
My opinion remains the same. I think the McCanns were criminally negligent in leaving their children unattended. I do not know if they are guilty or innocent regarding her disappearance but believe the press releases of the last week from Mitchell are not helping their cause which bothers me.
If I had attended the incident as a police officer, my first reaction would have been that she had wandered off after waking which I believe is exactly how the Portuguese officers reacted. And there is another possibility. Wandered off and abducted on the street by opportunist paedophile.
A friend of the McCanns in Saturdays Daily Mail {I know} explained what the parents and children did after the last known pictures of Maddy were taken.
The twins had been in the Creche in the morning, the family had lunch, then all the children went to the creche whilst both parents took private tennis lessons with the resident tennis coach.
The friend said all these facts could be checked as the children had to be signed in etc.
So the baby sitting facilities were OK during the day but strangely not at night, not much of a family holiday for the children was it.
Sorry can't do the link.
I wish all these millionaires etc would unite to form a charity to find all missing children and children taken abroad by a parent without authority, with top legal advice, private jets and media spokespeople more missing children could be returned home.
The twins had been in the Creche in the morning, the family had lunch, then all the children went to the creche whilst both parents took private tennis lessons with the resident tennis coach.
The friend said all these facts could be checked as the children had to be signed in etc.
So the baby sitting facilities were OK during the day but strangely not at night, not much of a family holiday for the children was it.
Sorry can't do the link.
I wish all these millionaires etc would unite to form a charity to find all missing children and children taken abroad by a parent without authority, with top legal advice, private jets and media spokespeople more missing children could be returned home.
Chompu there is an article in the sunday mirror (sorry cant do the link as I am not very good at that sort of thing) which you will find on the SM website. This was written by a high ranking ex policeman, similar length of service to yourself. He went over to PDL and spent a week going over the scene. It was interesting. I wont go in to the details, anyone who is interested in finding out the truth about what happened should read this. Bearing in mind that it is one mans opinion. What I did find interesting was his comment that actually going there and actually seeing were this tragic event took place altered his perspective. He also lists 4 theories of what could have happened.
Chompu - forgot to add this. I have seen in your previous posts that you said that in your experience that no parent of a missing child s first thought was that their child had been abducted. i respect your opinion, and maybe you never experienced that, but I find it hard to beleive that the McCanns are the only parents to have thought that. Also, where did you hear this. I thought Kate McCanns first words to anyone about it were Madeleines gone! I also thought they jumped to that conclusion because the bedroom window which they said they knew was locked was open. I am sure I remember them saying this in one of their interviews, before the PJ had them gagged. I still think the whole thing was badly handled by the police from the very beginning. Regardless of who did it, I think from what I have seen so far that Madeleine has been let down very badly by them.
Sambro
You are right about this being an unusual occurance. Child abduction from a dwelling place is extremely rare. Would you take the risk of entering someones' apartment and taking a child when someone could return at any moment or the child could wake and scream the place down. You then have to carry the child away in an area probably quite busy with people. The alternative, snatch a child from the streets or beach. Being a holiday area there must be a lot of kids around.
Regarding the article. Yes, I had seen it. Some interesting points. I'll just mention the ones that give me some concern. The apartment wasn't sealed off. Not initially perhaps but it was at some point because I have seen photographs showing it surrounded by the normal police tape. At what point this was done I've no idea. I'm not sure that the failure to take dna samples from the twins at an early stage makes a lot of difference.
The McCanns when at the Tapas bar were not far away. This claim I find the most disturbing because it is totally incorrect. We have probably all seen the google pictures of the scene which show the bar is 120 yards away and the view of the apartment is blocked by trees and a wall.
The McCanns may not have contacted Sky before the police but Kirsty Wark was contacted early the following morning through a third person. This I still consider unusual behavior.
Lastly, he declares the McCanns innocent. As an experienced police officer I don't know how he can say this without knowing all the facts and evidence. If you do that long in the police nothing should ever surprise you.
You are right about this being an unusual occurance. Child abduction from a dwelling place is extremely rare. Would you take the risk of entering someones' apartment and taking a child when someone could return at any moment or the child could wake and scream the place down. You then have to carry the child away in an area probably quite busy with people. The alternative, snatch a child from the streets or beach. Being a holiday area there must be a lot of kids around.
Regarding the article. Yes, I had seen it. Some interesting points. I'll just mention the ones that give me some concern. The apartment wasn't sealed off. Not initially perhaps but it was at some point because I have seen photographs showing it surrounded by the normal police tape. At what point this was done I've no idea. I'm not sure that the failure to take dna samples from the twins at an early stage makes a lot of difference.
The McCanns when at the Tapas bar were not far away. This claim I find the most disturbing because it is totally incorrect. We have probably all seen the google pictures of the scene which show the bar is 120 yards away and the view of the apartment is blocked by trees and a wall.
The McCanns may not have contacted Sky before the police but Kirsty Wark was contacted early the following morning through a third person. This I still consider unusual behavior.
Lastly, he declares the McCanns innocent. As an experienced police officer I don't know how he can say this without knowing all the facts and evidence. If you do that long in the police nothing should ever surprise you.
AOG - two things - firstly I assume that since you would not leave a child in a car since 'it might spontaneously combust' you would not cross a road in case a car came down the road too fast (imho far more likely that your bizarre example).
Secondly, I'm male and more than happy to go to a child that is in distress or appears to be alone. I have never been called a paedophile. Sadly it is people like you (believing the media hype) who make this an uncaring society.
Secondly, I'm male and more than happy to go to a child that is in distress or appears to be alone. I have never been called a paedophile. Sadly it is people like you (believing the media hype) who make this an uncaring society.
Oneeyed. Don't take AOG's comments too literally or to ridiculous extremes. I think he is quite correct to point out to certain people the possibilities of their actions or lack of them depending on the case.
We now live in a society where people just don't THINK. They don't think about the consequences of leaving children alone no matter where they are ( house fires, drownings, abductions, traffic accidents, dog attacks, etc etc ) never mind about the poor dogs that die of heat in a car through someone's thoughtlessness.
They have lost all ability to foresee what could happen. My mother would always hold onto my hand in public, shops, railway stations etc and would never leave me alone in a car.
Many of today's parents are just lazy or lack foresight. You see it all over.
I agree with AOG on the other issue. As a male I also once went to help a little girl who appeared to be lost in a shopping centre. The mother appeared on the scene and I won't even repeat the abuse to which II was subjected.
We now live in a society where people just don't THINK. They don't think about the consequences of leaving children alone no matter where they are ( house fires, drownings, abductions, traffic accidents, dog attacks, etc etc ) never mind about the poor dogs that die of heat in a car through someone's thoughtlessness.
They have lost all ability to foresee what could happen. My mother would always hold onto my hand in public, shops, railway stations etc and would never leave me alone in a car.
Many of today's parents are just lazy or lack foresight. You see it all over.
I agree with AOG on the other issue. As a male I also once went to help a little girl who appeared to be lost in a shopping centre. The mother appeared on the scene and I won't even repeat the abuse to which II was subjected.
Sadly, I do think we are living in an increasingly uncaring society. My kids are grown up now, so thankfully i do not have to worry about that sort of thing anymore. There are no training courses for being a parent. i think most of us just do the best we can.We make mistakes, we are human. The number of times my kids wandered off ! It is impossible to keep your eye on them 24/7. You would have to be paranoid to be able to do that. I am sorry, but if you had to be thinking all the time that some pervert was going to snatch your kids as soon as your back was turned, it would drive you mad. Not only that, we should not have to.
But that would be Utopia. I think that if you did a poll and people were really honest, then you would see that a lot of people have done what the McCanns did, And they have got away with it. Tragically the McCanns did not. I think that the portugese people can not understand why some british parents dont take their kids with them at night.. But lets face it , Portugese culture is different than ours. Here,
most babies are tucked up in bed an hour or so after tea. We are creatures of habit. i am convinced that the McCanns are technically guilty of neglect , but i dont think they did it because they dont care. I think they were on holiday, relaxed, felt safe, they are in a child friendly environment. They let their guard down, with tragic consequences. I feel nothing but sympathy for them. Their punishment is that they will have to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives. What ever happened to compassion? And in an ideal world all missing children would get the same attention.Maybe these millionaires have felt compelled to offer help because they feel compassion for the McCanns. They dont deserve this! Neglect yes. Murder no!
But that would be Utopia. I think that if you did a poll and people were really honest, then you would see that a lot of people have done what the McCanns did, And they have got away with it. Tragically the McCanns did not. I think that the portugese people can not understand why some british parents dont take their kids with them at night.. But lets face it , Portugese culture is different than ours. Here,
most babies are tucked up in bed an hour or so after tea. We are creatures of habit. i am convinced that the McCanns are technically guilty of neglect , but i dont think they did it because they dont care. I think they were on holiday, relaxed, felt safe, they are in a child friendly environment. They let their guard down, with tragic consequences. I feel nothing but sympathy for them. Their punishment is that they will have to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives. What ever happened to compassion? And in an ideal world all missing children would get the same attention.Maybe these millionaires have felt compelled to offer help because they feel compassion for the McCanns. They dont deserve this! Neglect yes. Murder no!
Great answer Dassi to Oneeyed, I was just about to answer him, but your answer said everything I would have said.
Regarding my bizarre example though Oneeyed, if you have actually seen cars suddenly burst into flame like I have, then maybe you would think differently. A fuel line has only to spring a leak and drip on a hot exhaust or a fault develope in the wiring. Anything can happen regarding cars, why only the other day a friend of mine took delivery of a new car. He parked it on a hill just to pop into a shop for a minute, when he came out the car was at the bottom of the hill, crashed into another vehicle. The police officer that was called to the scene, checked that the handbreak had been applied and found nothing wrong. The cause is still being investigated.
And I agree with you Dassi some of today's parents have lost all ability to see what could happen, and at times seem totally inadequate in bringing up children. Perhaps that is why manufactures deem it necessary to put warning notices on everthing we buy for them, and why the goverment increasingly try to take over the responsibility of parenting.
Just in case anyone wants to see what can happen.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/5192/audi-r8-up-in -flames/
Regarding my bizarre example though Oneeyed, if you have actually seen cars suddenly burst into flame like I have, then maybe you would think differently. A fuel line has only to spring a leak and drip on a hot exhaust or a fault develope in the wiring. Anything can happen regarding cars, why only the other day a friend of mine took delivery of a new car. He parked it on a hill just to pop into a shop for a minute, when he came out the car was at the bottom of the hill, crashed into another vehicle. The police officer that was called to the scene, checked that the handbreak had been applied and found nothing wrong. The cause is still being investigated.
And I agree with you Dassi some of today's parents have lost all ability to see what could happen, and at times seem totally inadequate in bringing up children. Perhaps that is why manufactures deem it necessary to put warning notices on everthing we buy for them, and why the goverment increasingly try to take over the responsibility of parenting.
Just in case anyone wants to see what can happen.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/5192/audi-r8-up-in -flames/
AOG We seem to keep digressing from the original question . But I will go with it anyway. I hear your comments about irresponsible parents, and i am sure there are a few (more than a few?) Speaking as a former working mother (my kids have grown up now) i have to say that working and bringing up kids is bloody hard work. i confess that i have on many occasions left my kids in the car. whilst i
paid for petrol. nipped into the shop for a loaf. When you are in a hurry you have not got time to think about these things. you want to get home, give the kids tea, get the washer on. i know there are some parents that are lazy, but spare a thought for the working mums ( oh how i wish i had been able to afford the luxury of staying at home!) So much to do and so little time!
paid for petrol. nipped into the shop for a loaf. When you are in a hurry you have not got time to think about these things. you want to get home, give the kids tea, get the washer on. i know there are some parents that are lazy, but spare a thought for the working mums ( oh how i wish i had been able to afford the luxury of staying at home!) So much to do and so little time!
I am not saying i'm the best mother in the world, I expect I do things wrong, but I have to say that I have never and never will leave my son alone in the car or home until he is at a responcible age (21 i think)!
Seriosly, going with what AOG said: I know someone who left their child asleep in the car while they took the shoping in the house, it was a hot day and the car set on fire. They managed to get her out but by the skin of her teeth!
Honestly guys, the effort it takes to take your children with you or just stay close to them isn't much to ask!
By the way, I don't think that stay at home mothers are lazy, I had a part time job for a while, but i'm full time now and don't think that being full time comprimises how safe I keep my son! I also have washing to put on and food to cook!
Seriosly, going with what AOG said: I know someone who left their child asleep in the car while they took the shoping in the house, it was a hot day and the car set on fire. They managed to get her out but by the skin of her teeth!
Honestly guys, the effort it takes to take your children with you or just stay close to them isn't much to ask!
By the way, I don't think that stay at home mothers are lazy, I had a part time job for a while, but i'm full time now and don't think that being full time comprimises how safe I keep my son! I also have washing to put on and food to cook!
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