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Pakistan
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I have just been watching the mass protests in Islamabad, could we ever expect our citizens to take such action against our Goverment, If not why not?
Given the fact that Pakistan is an unstable Muslim nation, with it's own nuclear weapons, and is a base for Al Queda training camps. Was the west wise to invest so heavily in Pervez Musharraf, who is now in danger of being overthown by radical Muslims.
Given the fact that Pakistan is an unstable Muslim nation, with it's own nuclear weapons, and is a base for Al Queda training camps. Was the west wise to invest so heavily in Pervez Musharraf, who is now in danger of being overthown by radical Muslims.
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certainly - don't forget the poll tax riots. Fortunately, New Labour has brought peace and prosperity and there is no longer any reason to throng Trafalgar Square unless you want to feed pigeons.
As for backing Musharraf, what was the alternative? Most of the people protesting now aren't Islamists, they're democrats.
As for backing Musharraf, what was the alternative? Most of the people protesting now aren't Islamists, they're democrats.
The Times article focuses on al-Qaeda camps in Pakistan, camps where militants receive the kind of training that could enable them to carry out terrorist attacks in the West. But there are also larger military training camps -- the kind that are used to train Taliban fighters to attack coalition forces in Afghanistan, or to train Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, or other Kashmiri separatist groups. The training required to carry out a terrorist attack in the West is different than what is needed to fight in Afghanistan or Kashmir.
Taken from an article in the New York Times.
But if you listen or read the news it is a well known fact.
Taken from an article in the New York Times.
But if you listen or read the news it is a well known fact.
Poll tax riots were nothing like this.
New Labour has brought peace and prosperity.
That's a laugh jno what peace, we are in danger more now since the end of the IRA attacks, and our troops are being killed and injured in two theaters of war.
As for prosperity, prosperity for whom, vast majorities are living on the bread line under Labour.
New Labour has brought peace and prosperity.
That's a laugh jno what peace, we are in danger more now since the end of the IRA attacks, and our troops are being killed and injured in two theaters of war.
As for prosperity, prosperity for whom, vast majorities are living on the bread line under Labour.
anotheoldgit
An ugly and irritating fact about New Labour is that they've managed the economy remarkably well.
We have low unemployment and low inflation. We have the strongest economy in Europe and six months ago London took over from New York as the world's financial capital.
Who are these breadline people you're referring to???
They exist, sure, but are you saying there are more now, than when the Tories closed the pits and steel mills.
But let's leave that aside - we all know that the Tories couldn't manage an economy for toffee...back to Pakistan...have you got a link to a site which explains the history to the current troubles? I need to educate myself on this.
An ugly and irritating fact about New Labour is that they've managed the economy remarkably well.
We have low unemployment and low inflation. We have the strongest economy in Europe and six months ago London took over from New York as the world's financial capital.
Who are these breadline people you're referring to???
They exist, sure, but are you saying there are more now, than when the Tories closed the pits and steel mills.
But let's leave that aside - we all know that the Tories couldn't manage an economy for toffee...back to Pakistan...have you got a link to a site which explains the history to the current troubles? I need to educate myself on this.
Sadly for the 'Britain is going to the dogs/I'm going to emigrate' lot, the reason that British people don't rise up with fists to overthrow the government is that we're a peaceful prosperous nation with little to complain about. Comparatively speaking.
That isn't to say that everything is rosy.
But we're not ridled with unemployment and seeing warring factions tear up our country while whole families starve to death without the most basic living conditions.
We're surpremely lucky to be living here, and people know it. Here, most people's biggest concern is mortgage rates or whether they wait 1 day or 3 days to see a GP. For free.
That isn't to say that everything is rosy.
But we're not ridled with unemployment and seeing warring factions tear up our country while whole families starve to death without the most basic living conditions.
We're surpremely lucky to be living here, and people know it. Here, most people's biggest concern is mortgage rates or whether they wait 1 day or 3 days to see a GP. For free.
You mean like the ones the Pakistan government has bombed as soon as they were found?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/09/pa kistan.alqaeda/index.html
That I think should answer your question about why the west invests so heavily in Musharref.
He's a known quantity with a pro-western agenda.
As for vast majorities (what does that mean?) on the bread line under Labour - it was this government that brought in the minimum wage which the Tories opposed!
Unemployment is 3% of the workforce compared to nearly 10% in '92
What a lot of twaddle you talk!
We're all very big on democracy unless we think it might throw up an anti-western government in which case we prop up all sorts of tyranta nad dictators
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/09/pa kistan.alqaeda/index.html
That I think should answer your question about why the west invests so heavily in Musharref.
He's a known quantity with a pro-western agenda.
As for vast majorities (what does that mean?) on the bread line under Labour - it was this government that brought in the minimum wage which the Tories opposed!
Unemployment is 3% of the workforce compared to nearly 10% in '92
What a lot of twaddle you talk!
We're all very big on democracy unless we think it might throw up an anti-western government in which case we prop up all sorts of tyranta nad dictators
Sweep2k
Praise be. Someone else can see what I can see.
I was watching a documentary about the situation in Dafur the other night and it featured a woman who has to walk five miles each way to get a couple gallons of fresh drinking water for her and her kids every day.
Whilst I was watching it, I was searching iTunes for the new Roisin Murphy album. iTunes didn't have it and I sat there moaning about how annoying it was.
I then got that 'moment of clarity' which suggested that I was being monumentally stooopid.
We have absolutely nothing to complain about.
Nothing.
Praise be. Someone else can see what I can see.
I was watching a documentary about the situation in Dafur the other night and it featured a woman who has to walk five miles each way to get a couple gallons of fresh drinking water for her and her kids every day.
Whilst I was watching it, I was searching iTunes for the new Roisin Murphy album. iTunes didn't have it and I sat there moaning about how annoying it was.
I then got that 'moment of clarity' which suggested that I was being monumentally stooopid.
We have absolutely nothing to complain about.
Nothing.
Sweep2k
I see your point.
It's just the whole 'country is going to the dogs' thing is a bit...well, it's a bit drama queenish.
And also, it depends entirely which dogs the country is going to.
Personally, if the dogs in question are Scooby Doo and the 101 Dalmations, I think that would be a good thing.
I see your point.
It's just the whole 'country is going to the dogs' thing is a bit...well, it's a bit drama queenish.
And also, it depends entirely which dogs the country is going to.
Personally, if the dogs in question are Scooby Doo and the 101 Dalmations, I think that would be a good thing.
Going back to your initial question,why dont our citizens rise up against the government.
It did occur once back in 1381 The Peasants Revolt, which lasted several weekes & was planned with military precision. This was also about the poll tax I suggest you read about it you will see how & why it was the only major & influential rising in English social history , were the masses rose against the classes. It puts the events of 1990 in the shade.
Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own cabinet. Nobody had the balls to take on the job, so they gave it to an up & coming & ambitious MP Mr Major.
By the way it is illegal to feed the pigeons in the square
It did occur once back in 1381 The Peasants Revolt, which lasted several weekes & was planned with military precision. This was also about the poll tax I suggest you read about it you will see how & why it was the only major & influential rising in English social history , were the masses rose against the classes. It puts the events of 1990 in the shade.
Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own cabinet. Nobody had the balls to take on the job, so they gave it to an up & coming & ambitious MP Mr Major.
By the way it is illegal to feed the pigeons in the square
"New Labour has brought peace and prosperity"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, guffaw guffaw guffaw guffaw, snort snort, no, please stop, hee hee he hee, chortle chortle chortle...oh, I think I'm stopping, giggle, giggle giggle....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................no wait, here it goes again, ha ha ha ha ha, great dirty big belly laughs, fnaar fnaar fnaar. No, please stop - people are looking.
he he he he he he he he he he he.
I've just spent the last hour sitting in a packed commuter train from London Bridge and THAT has really really really cheered me up.
Peace and prosperity indeed.
Brilliant.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, guffaw guffaw guffaw guffaw, snort snort, no, please stop, hee hee he hee, chortle chortle chortle...oh, I think I'm stopping, giggle, giggle giggle....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................no wait, here it goes again, ha ha ha ha ha, great dirty big belly laughs, fnaar fnaar fnaar. No, please stop - people are looking.
he he he he he he he he he he he.
I've just spent the last hour sitting in a packed commuter train from London Bridge and THAT has really really really cheered me up.
Peace and prosperity indeed.
Brilliant.
It is a matter of national character.
As a race, Pakistanis are passionate, politically aware, and perfectly willing to take physical action to change aspects of their societry that impact on them far more than in other nations - like ours.
The British are politically apathetic to the point of torpor, and are far more likely to moan at anyone who will listen, although that is not essential, and regard the idea of actually physically taking any action to change anything as far too much like hard work!
As a race, Pakistanis are passionate, politically aware, and perfectly willing to take physical action to change aspects of their societry that impact on them far more than in other nations - like ours.
The British are politically apathetic to the point of torpor, and are far more likely to moan at anyone who will listen, although that is not essential, and regard the idea of actually physically taking any action to change anything as far too much like hard work!
Some of the comments posted here look suspiciously like the same that arose in recent AOG posts. Well I'll be darned, EXACTLY the same words/phrases in fact.
Must be parrot season in the UK - flying in from the Caribbean !
So here we go again....some people just don't learn !!!!
"Low unemployment" = doctoring of figures and a sideways movement into Incapacity benefit. Again, I repeat. I was a Civil Servant and know FIRST HAND what goes on.
"Lucky to live here" ..... try living in other FIRST WORLD countries and you'll have a direct comparison. How can you make such statements without first hand experience! I But hey, if you want to compare THIRD WORLD Darfur with THIRD WORLD UK then I guess you are lucky.
"Peace and Prosperity" ....ha ha ha. So we have Russian bombers buzzing us again, Terrorists blowing up tube trains etc, Airport security gone beserk due to inherent dangers, crime is rampant with young kids now getting killed in crossfire. Then there's the fuel price, the volatile stockmarket , postal strikes, UK companies closing ( Rover etc ) UK companies being taken over by foreign enterprise....oh wait, that's ok,... because the UK has been taken over anyway !
And back to the original question..........our citizens taking similar action against our Government.....naah...they've all left the Country and those that are left wouldn't want to rock the gravy boat.
Must be parrot season in the UK - flying in from the Caribbean !
So here we go again....some people just don't learn !!!!
"Low unemployment" = doctoring of figures and a sideways movement into Incapacity benefit. Again, I repeat. I was a Civil Servant and know FIRST HAND what goes on.
"Lucky to live here" ..... try living in other FIRST WORLD countries and you'll have a direct comparison. How can you make such statements without first hand experience! I But hey, if you want to compare THIRD WORLD Darfur with THIRD WORLD UK then I guess you are lucky.
"Peace and Prosperity" ....ha ha ha. So we have Russian bombers buzzing us again, Terrorists blowing up tube trains etc, Airport security gone beserk due to inherent dangers, crime is rampant with young kids now getting killed in crossfire. Then there's the fuel price, the volatile stockmarket , postal strikes, UK companies closing ( Rover etc ) UK companies being taken over by foreign enterprise....oh wait, that's ok,... because the UK has been taken over anyway !
And back to the original question..........our citizens taking similar action against our Government.....naah...they've all left the Country and those that are left wouldn't want to rock the gravy boat.
I saw the post earlier regarding New Labour and the economy - I haven't read the thread since, so I'd just like to respond by pointing out that the prosperous economy was more inherited by New Labour from the Tories than created by New Labour. The economic prosperity we've recently enjoyed can in part be attributed to the Conservative reforms of the 80s and 90s (and various other complex global stuff I won't go into).
New Labour do deserve credit for maintaining this though, to be fair.
I'll get on with the rest of the thread now...
New Labour do deserve credit for maintaining this though, to be fair.
I'll get on with the rest of the thread now...
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