Armenian Holocaust

[suffragette]

Should Turkey be denied any chance of entry into the European Union until it accepts its moral responsibility for the Armenian Holocaust during the First World War?
http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3146 418.ece

[jno]

it denies there was any holocaust. It just says there was a war on and lots of people died. It also points out that this happened in the Ottoman Empire; modern-day Turkey wasn't created until after the empire collapsed. Should France be expelled from the Union for slaughtering Protestants a few centuries ago? When does responsibility stop?

[suffragette]

I think it is possible to move on when one has accepted responsibility for ones actions. France has accepted the butchery of Protestants during the St Bartholomews Day massacre, but Turkey continues to deny any involvement in the systematic annihilation of the Armenians.

Would it have been deemed acceptible if the Germans had refused to apologise for the murder of European Jewry long enough for it to be considered ancient history and no longer relevent and worth an apology?

[anotheoldgit]

Since Turkey is part Europe and part Asia, I don't think that they should be allowed in the EU,

Taking into account that 99% of Turks are Muslim, and that on entry, there stands a very good chance of a huge influx of them coming into the UK.

This would only escalate the problems we now have of trying to intergrate the Muslim faith into our culture.

[Goodsoulette]

I dont think its a matter of what has happened in the past. A lot of EU countries have shadey pasts. Although they have been recognised as a full candidate for Eu memberships, its going to take them years to reach the standards in many areas to become a state member. I think focusing on their human rights issues and plitical problems with neighbouring countries is far more important than this. It would of course be respectful for them to acknowledge their wrong doings but we didnt put an embargo on any Japanese products until they admitted their war crimes.

[Loosehead]

not really an issue for them at the moment, they have hundreds of things to change before they are remotely suitable. If they did that and then the only thing stopping them was a centuries due apology then they'd probably do it.

[Goodsoulette]

Oh my gosh. I find myself agreeing with Loosehead, for the second time.

[LoftyLottie]

Perhaps I am being thick here but how can a country that is half European and half Asian become part of the EU?

I agree with Loosehead as well.

[Loosehead]

Well thing is Lottie, there's no rules to say that a country must be in Europe to be in the EU. I don't think they even have to be near Europe.I mean I suppose it's impractical if they are too far away but there's nothing stopping for example North African nations joining if they where to meet the other criteria.

[youngmafbog]

Excatly right Loosehead, more countries for th UK and Germany to support and Bruxelles to dictate to

[jno]

you could start by removing Israel from the Eurovision contest, I suppose. But part of Turkey is clearly in Europe

[youngmafbog]

If we wait much longer then Iran will be removing Israel full stop.

[Gromit]

There is nothing in the criteria for join the EU that precludes a county on religious grounds. Having said that, France has opposed Turkey's proposed membership and their reason, though not openly stated, is because of Turkey being a Muslim country.

It should not bar them. Turkey is geographically partly in Europe. It is Pro west. Its constitution forbids religious meddling in the running of the country. It is a strategic place. Its population is young.

Turkey should admit its guilt in Armenia, but probably won't. The people responsible were defeated and deposed during WWI and Turkey became a Republic.

It will be 20 years at least before Turkey gains full membership, but it will happen.

[Loosehead]

yeah YMB it'd be great to extent the EU cohesion fund to build Gaddaffi a new palace one day! Sod turkey let's have Egypt, Morroco, Libya etc.

[Goodsoulette]

It may be predominantly a muslim country but its also secular. If it was law to be a practising Muslim and said that people were obliged to follow Islam and had to go to Mosque etc then it would be an infringement on human rights. Their religion is neither here nor there, one of the pillars of the EU is to be able to practice whichever religion you choose to and for France to pick this as a reason is ludicrous. It would be like disallowing Italy for being predominantly Roman Catholic.

Gromit I believe the time line from 2004 estimated was 10 - 15 years.. I think they have worked pretty hard on their human rights issues so far but the are still falling short on agriculture, economics and many other areas in the acquis communautaire .

There is a geographical criteria laid out in the Maastricht treaty, these are part of the reason for Morroco failing in it's application and the reason Israel was not allowed. Turkey is Eurasian so acceptable.

[Gromit]

Goodsoulette

The 2004 timeline for Turkey to become a full member is already behind schedule and will slip further. The 10-15 years will drag to 20-25 years.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-05 /2007-05-14-voa21.cfm?CFID=158072276&CFTOKEN=6 1092121

[Goodsoulette]

Sometimes the French act like the spoiled kid at the birthday party.

Personally I have been a little terrfied of visiting Turkey, since watching The Midnight Express, I have no plans to go there and smuggle any heroin but I do find myself in the most ridiculous situations, so the chances of it happening aren't entirely ruled out.

[jno]

I think there's still a problem with the law that says you can be jailed (though it seems nobody ever is) for defaming the state; this is seen as incompatible with European norms. But the Turks have made genuine strides towards meeting EU demands

[jno]

Goodsoulette, just don't strap anything at all round your tummy, ok?

[Goodsoulette]

I'd get conned by some pretty boy with hypnotising eyes into believing it was a lifesaving bouyancy aid and it was illegal not to wear it under your clothing when exiting Turkey.

( I nearly wrote exciting there)