Listener 4842 For Me And You By...
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Should we have a referendum on EU treaty?
Generally I am of the opinion that you cannot govern by referendum, however in matters of fundemntal change to the nation I think the people should be given a vote. Is this one of those occasions?
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PArt of me thinks yes we should because it would be a significant change.
However as has been pointed out on here several times before, there are so many different parts of the EU that I'm not sure that you or Ior everday Joe and Josephine are qualified to make an educated and informed decision on whether we join or not as we simply don't understand all the issues. If this is true then we certainly should not have a referendum on the EU.
However as has been pointed out on here several times before, there are so many different parts of the EU that I'm not sure that you or Ior everday Joe and Josephine are qualified to make an educated and informed decision on whether we join or not as we simply don't understand all the issues. If this is true then we certainly should not have a referendum on the EU.
Why not just trawl through these?
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question42 8108.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question46 6173.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question46 9763.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question45 7093.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question11 4845-2.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question11 5623.html
For a more original question, you might as well ask whether we should bring back hanging.
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question42 8108.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question46 6173.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question46 9763.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question45 7093.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question11 4845-2.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question11 5623.html
For a more original question, you might as well ask whether we should bring back hanging.
Putins puppet wins the Russian election and everyone shouts foul.
But what is the difference betweeen Putin and bully boy bottler Brown (except Putin has b*lls)
Both govern (or will) without being elected and both dictate without caring what the people think.
Brown (a scott) is about to give away what countless have died for defending.
Shame on us for letting it happen
Great Britain RIP.
But what is the difference betweeen Putin and bully boy bottler Brown (except Putin has b*lls)
Both govern (or will) without being elected and both dictate without caring what the people think.
Brown (a scott) is about to give away what countless have died for defending.
Shame on us for letting it happen
Great Britain RIP.
The problem I find with the concept of a referendum is that people don't have enough or often even the right information to vote on these subjects especially when it comes to the European Union.
How many of the whingers actually use their right to vote in all elections, including electing their M.E.P? I am one of no more than 10 people that I know vote every time they are able to. I don't like the idea of referendum at all.
How many of the whingers actually use their right to vote in all elections, including electing their M.E.P? I am one of no more than 10 people that I know vote every time they are able to. I don't like the idea of referendum at all.
To al those that say you are not qualified, what on earth is the matter with you. You have been listening to dicator Blair for too long.
Noo Labour ride on this all to often. Perhaps you are not qualified to vote in a general election either - Noo labour would love that.
As for straw polls I just just donducted a quickie of 20 people areound me. 2 didnt vote, one because he could not be bothered and the other because he is Australian.
Straw polls mean nothing. You can twist them to whatever you want them to be so you argument on that basis is very flawed.
Noo Labour ride on this all to often. Perhaps you are not qualified to vote in a general election either - Noo labour would love that.
As for straw polls I just just donducted a quickie of 20 people areound me. 2 didnt vote, one because he could not be bothered and the other because he is Australian.
Straw polls mean nothing. You can twist them to whatever you want them to be so you argument on that basis is very flawed.
Many people actually want to leave the EU but if there were a referendum on that they'd lose.
They know that so they simply sit making trouble by asking for referenda on this and any other change.
I'd support a referendum on our whole membership if I thought the little Englanders would just shut up and respect the result.
But they won't so I dont
They know that so they simply sit making trouble by asking for referenda on this and any other change.
I'd support a referendum on our whole membership if I thought the little Englanders would just shut up and respect the result.
But they won't so I dont
So if the Europhiles think they'd win a vote on our whole membership then why don't they go ahead with it? Could it possibly be that they are not all that confident. For what it's worth I'd shut up if they had a vote, regardless of the outcome.
Why are we always "litlle Englanders" just because we don't want our country run by corrupt foriegn powers? Now just remined me, is it now 14 years since the EU found an accountant willing to sign off the accounts??
Why are we always "litlle Englanders" just because we don't want our country run by corrupt foriegn powers? Now just remined me, is it now 14 years since the EU found an accountant willing to sign off the accounts??
I would tend to agree, LH, that usually we elect MPs to make decisions for us, and we cannot normally expect a direct say on most issues.
However, the Treaty of Lisbon is somewhat different. Despite what politicians of most parties would have us believe, this treaty fundamentally alters the UK�s status as an independent nation (and before anybody asks, yes - I have read most of it). It is, furthermore, irrevocable. It is the final stage in the integration of individual European countries into a single state � a process that has been taking place largely by stealth for the past 50 years. It has been portrayed as merely a tidying up or consolidation of existing treaties, but this is disingenuous in the extreme.
We must be under no illusions. If the UK agrees to be bound by this treaty its function as an independent state will come to an end. It is far reaching and wide ranging and can encompass whatever European leaders want it to.
Some people may be quite happy with that. Others may not (and recent polls suggest the latter may be in the majority). Either way, the electorate should be given their say on whether they want to see their country subsumed into a European super-state governed by people over whom they will have even less influence than they do now (and that is little enough).
The question is no so complex that Joe Soap is too thick to understand it and it is at best patronising and at worst offensive for politicians to suggest that it is. If it is such a good deal for this country it should not be too difficult to sell it to the voters, and its supporters need not worry.
Talk of "winning" or "losing" such a plebiscite is misplaced. The idea is to find out what the majority wants and to act upon it. There is only one winner and that is democracy. But I think today's politicians are a little too wary of that.
However, the Treaty of Lisbon is somewhat different. Despite what politicians of most parties would have us believe, this treaty fundamentally alters the UK�s status as an independent nation (and before anybody asks, yes - I have read most of it). It is, furthermore, irrevocable. It is the final stage in the integration of individual European countries into a single state � a process that has been taking place largely by stealth for the past 50 years. It has been portrayed as merely a tidying up or consolidation of existing treaties, but this is disingenuous in the extreme.
We must be under no illusions. If the UK agrees to be bound by this treaty its function as an independent state will come to an end. It is far reaching and wide ranging and can encompass whatever European leaders want it to.
Some people may be quite happy with that. Others may not (and recent polls suggest the latter may be in the majority). Either way, the electorate should be given their say on whether they want to see their country subsumed into a European super-state governed by people over whom they will have even less influence than they do now (and that is little enough).
The question is no so complex that Joe Soap is too thick to understand it and it is at best patronising and at worst offensive for politicians to suggest that it is. If it is such a good deal for this country it should not be too difficult to sell it to the voters, and its supporters need not worry.
Talk of "winning" or "losing" such a plebiscite is misplaced. The idea is to find out what the majority wants and to act upon it. There is only one winner and that is democracy. But I think today's politicians are a little too wary of that.
Whether the electorate is too stupid to understand the issues is beside the point. Labour promised a referendum in their last election manifesto. The fact that the Constitution is now called the Reform Treaty is irrelevant. It is 99% the same as the constitution and Labour should honour their pledge.
This Constitution/Treaty, call it what you will, fundamentally changes the way Britain is governed and therefore must be put to the people.
This Constitution/Treaty, call it what you will, fundamentally changes the way Britain is governed and therefore must be put to the people.
We're getting a referendum. We've had one on every EU treaty to teh best of my knowledge.
Only, I live in Ireland, and we fiercely guard our constitution.
As for the comment that you cannot govern by referendum - of course you can. Especially in this day and age - just give every person access to a pc.
The problem would be the great unwashed would have a say, and the Sun and Daily Mail would form most policies.
Only, I live in Ireland, and we fiercely guard our constitution.
As for the comment that you cannot govern by referendum - of course you can. Especially in this day and age - just give every person access to a pc.
The problem would be the great unwashed would have a say, and the Sun and Daily Mail would form most policies.
-- answer removed --
You do yourself � and your fellow voters � a grave injustice, tonyted.
Although the document itself is quite complex, the fundamental issues which should be put to the people are quite simple. It removes from member states authority over (among other things) asylum and immigration policy, sea and air transport policy, and energy strategy. It seeks to �harmonise� economic policy, the regulation of finance houses, civil and criminal law, police procedures, and industrial relations law.
All of these things will no longer be under the control of the UK government. What is more (and what is most important) is that, should we not like the EUs handling of these important aspects of our lives, there will be no option for us to revert to the pre-Treaty status. The Treaty is irrevocable and, unlike any other legislation to which we have ever been subject, it binds future UK parliaments. You will not be able to simply vote in a government determined to revoke the Treaty � that option will not be open to them.
Europe is already considered to be one nation as far as trade and the movement and employment of people are concerned. Policies on matters such as agriculture and fishing are dominated by legislation originated in Brussels and many people believe much of this is not in the best interests of the British.
The majority of people may well be in favour of further irreversible integration. But the changes are so fundamental that we need to be asked - as we were promised..
Although the document itself is quite complex, the fundamental issues which should be put to the people are quite simple. It removes from member states authority over (among other things) asylum and immigration policy, sea and air transport policy, and energy strategy. It seeks to �harmonise� economic policy, the regulation of finance houses, civil and criminal law, police procedures, and industrial relations law.
All of these things will no longer be under the control of the UK government. What is more (and what is most important) is that, should we not like the EUs handling of these important aspects of our lives, there will be no option for us to revert to the pre-Treaty status. The Treaty is irrevocable and, unlike any other legislation to which we have ever been subject, it binds future UK parliaments. You will not be able to simply vote in a government determined to revoke the Treaty � that option will not be open to them.
Europe is already considered to be one nation as far as trade and the movement and employment of people are concerned. Policies on matters such as agriculture and fishing are dominated by legislation originated in Brussels and many people believe much of this is not in the best interests of the British.
The majority of people may well be in favour of further irreversible integration. But the changes are so fundamental that we need to be asked - as we were promised..
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