Another honour killing

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=562358&in_page_i d=1770

A blunt reminder to all those that are prepared to embrace Islam.

These vile crimes committed under the title of "Honour Killings", are not only common to Middle East countries, there have been a number of similar crimes committed in this country.

[Quinlad]

This a favourite tactic of yours, AOG - taking issue with basic debating technique. Analogies are ways to demonstrate the lack of logic in a given position. It's a way of illuminating the inherent wrongness of someone's stance by comparing it to a similar example.

You can get your head round that. You're not that far gone. But you don't like what it shows you, so you you pretend it's beyond your realm of understanding. That way you get to ignore the counter argument entirely.

Crikey, the other day you were quibbling that an argument was 'too general' for you.

NB - Societies develop at different rates. When the Romans were building empires we were living in mud huts.

[Gromit]

"Killing someone unlawfully is right at the top of that list. "

Unfortunately, killing someone (stoning to death an adulterer for example) is not against the law in Wahhabic Saudi Arabia. In fact the state (and legal system) facilitates the process and base their laws on their reading of Quran.

[sp1214]

These vile creatures under the name of Islam are free to do what they want in their own country but don't import it into Britain.

[jake-the-peg]

Let me see if I can spell out your logical flaw AOG because you don't seem to be able to spot it.

You take a crime that is comitted in an Islamic country and lay it at the door of Islam.

You have no justification for this.

I try to point out the absurdity of this by showing you how ridiculous it would be to lay the Austrian imprisonment at the door of Christianity.

You call it irrelevant.

Either you can't understand or you are being deliberately obtuse.

Frankly I don't know why I bother - it's clear that you have an irrational hatred towards anything Islamic.

Does your hatred make you happy?

[Le Chat]

What AOG said was that the crime in the Islamic country was 'based' on religion but the one in Austria was not. Therefore, I think he was trying to suggest that the two are not comparable in either a religious or cultural way. Although both obviously are abhorrent.

[keyplus90]

What AOG said was that the crime in the Islamic country was 'based' on religion but the one in Austria was not.

Le Chat � you definitely need more knowledge about Islam. It is what you think based on Religion. That does not make it related to the Religion. I am sure there are so many Non Muslims who have killed their daughters for same reason. Tell me honestly would you associate all of their religion, or is it only Islam you are interested in.

[naomi24]

Keyplus I am sure there are so many Non Muslims who have killed their daughters for same reason.

Examples?

[Oneeyedvic]

do you mean same or some reason

[Oneeyedvic]

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/gayfrnd.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330929,00. html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575235 /Millionaire-killed-daughter-%27he-thought-was -Satan%27.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/feb/27/priso nsandprobation.society

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080 320a3.html

From a quick search on google for 'killed daughter -muslim ' (28600 results)

[Le Chat]

Waiting Keyplus, waiting.

[keyplus90]

I have no idea why are few people waiting for my answer. It is there someone else is giving you the same answer. I am sure the same way if I google about People who had sex with their own daughters I will get more none Muslims and may be just a fraction of Muslims even though media picks up any news to put blame on Muslims. Terminal 5 chaos. Muslim Terrorists. Applause from every where.

Naomi � I thought you were sensible enough to Type Honour killing in your bible Wikipedia and you would find out. Why do you want facts from me, I know you would never agree with my facts as you are ever determined to deny any thing which does not fulfil your expectations.

[SarCaustic]

Honour killing victim: Surjit Kaur Athwal

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=512157&in_page_i d=1770

Link taken from AOG's thread above this one. The victim is Sikh. What does that say?

Honour killing is a cultural rather than religious phenomenon.

[naomi24]

Keyplus I asked for examples from you because you said I am sure there are so many Non Muslims who have killed their daughters for same reason. Vic's examples do not back up your statement since they do not relate to honour killings.

Whilst the example given by SarCaustic concerns a Sikh, and he is right to say that honour killings are cultural, it does appear that most honour killings are carried out within the culture of Islam.

[Gromit]

naomi24

Here is the story of a non muslim Kurdish girl who was killed by her family because of her love for a muslim boy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_p age_id=1811

[keyplus90]

Naomi � You have a blind bit of idea. Sikhs are not Muslims, Yezidis are not Muslims either. I am not refusing that few Muslims do kill their daughters but even that is to do with their culture and they have not entered into Islamic teachings fully. I have no doubt that they would be answerable to God. If their government or police does not do anything they are partners in crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

I can not say more than this. I pledge on AB to Naomi that if she proves from authentic Islamic teachings that honour killing or any innocent killing is according to Islamic teachings, I will give up Islam and become Atheist. There you go. However if I prove that it has nothing to do with Islam, what would you do then. You decide it for yourself.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, so are you saying that most honour killings are not carried out within the culture of Islam?

[Gromit]

Turkey is an Islamic country of about 72 Million people. I have never heard of a so-called Honour killing there.

Iraq is an Islamic country of about 27 Million people and honour killings sadly do occur there. Same can be said of Saudi Arabia.

Same religion, different outcomes. Even though they both have the same religion, they have very different cultures and it is there that the excuses for these murders can be found.

[naomi24]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/528572 6.stm

[Gromit]

Just because I had not heard of honour killings in Turkey does not mean they do not exist, I've just found this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/352312 3.stm

Rather voids my argument above.

[keyplus90]

Gromit�s answer makes a very good sense. It is not in Turkey (we don�t talk about odd cases) because they are not Arabs. This has been among Arabs since history can tell you. Since Muhammad came he actually abolished so many things from that society. But few people are still more engulfed by their cultural values than religious.

Naomi � Islam is not a culture. It is a religion. If you do not know the difference between two then go back to the nursery and start again.