Hello Oldgit

[Seadragon]

You will have to bear with me again as I feel a long response coming on. It will probably be disjointed and since my kids are here I don't have much time also ignore the spelling mistakes. And I am at a disadvantage as the posts will be continuous with gaps of time inbetween, I hope you read the whole lot again when it is complete.

And I don't like to use the words 'white' and 'black' constantly, I don't like that this is so racially based but you have not left me much choice. However I point out that I would stand up for any cause, for anyone regardless of colour.

I had a quick skim through the other thread and I would like to say that, why should I grow a thick-skin? I believe in standing up against what I perceive as a wrong. If i am myself wrong then by all means voice your opinion directly to me but by no means am I the one who is 'feeding' you Oldgit. I don't have any more intention of engaging in a long discussion with you after this.

If you cannot hear my voice now, you will never hear it.

cont...

[Seadragon]

I asked you to consider the weight of your comments: 'But isn't the attractiveness down more to the influx of the white gene than the black one.'

And 'But given the chance, what white person would pay a fortune to have a completely black skin?
Now be honest.'

The 1st is saying that black people are inherently unattractive and any attractiveness is due to the presence of the white gene (see Krom's and Jake's answers).

In the 2nd comment, you emphasize the unattractiveness of black skin by saying that 'what white person would pay...' that is really deregatory and your view again offers a negative interpretation, some may think 'disgusting' others 'vile' etc but the emphasis is on the negative perception of black skin.

Then to directly call upon or appeal to people in a public forum which you do by adding the words 'now be honest' in my view amounts to racial incitement and borders on illegality.

You basically want people to say 'yeh, I wouldn't pay to have my nice colour skin blackened and looking nasty like those blacks.'

That is what I am really annoyed at and what I ask an apology for. cont.....

[Seadragon]

Now the saddened bit, the part that upset me more deeply: The weight of those comments.

I touched upon the historical weight, I hope you SAW that the quotes I chose of Mandela's depicted the ingrained effect of racism on a person's psyche.

I was not raising the practicalities of Civil Rights and Freedom - that is another debate. This was also the intention when I picked upon slavery.

I saw you didn't understand then and that is either in my failure to explain with clarity or your failure in not being able to discern what's said.

(And just to move away slightly from this discussion - I didn't ask you to apologise on behalf of the British Empire although you can do that if you wish. Although note that the Australian P.M apologised to the Aborigines around 2002-03?.

I highly recommend to you if you haven't seen it 'The British Empire in colour' - Art Malik. It is seriously fantastic and I sat through the 3 documentaries in one go.

cont...

[Seadragon]

From the past to the modern day, I think the crux of this issue today is when you said:

'The word racist is now becoming a most diluted word and carries no fear, for one being so called.'

I will explain to you the implication of that statement for me. I think there is some truth in what you say. The word racist is becoming fused with prejudice. Racist is at the extreme end and prejudice is well 'lower'.

I don't call you a racist because in your thread you differentiated between blacks and asians - racism is somewhat colour-blind in that respect, you're either white-skinned or you're not. Nothing matters to a racist beyond the skin-colour.

This is where when Mandela says that he was born free, one questions - Is a person really born free in the first place? Is that perception of freedom down to geography.....also another debate.)

Saying that I do think that you are prejudice and evidence of prejudice can be seen particularly I think in multi-cultural communities.

cont....

[Seadragon]

This is modern Britain for you, where a defendant asks for a white Barrister not a coloured one, when a suspect at a Police Station hears a white name and a coloured Solicitor enters they say 'I thought you were white, I don't want you', when people turn round saying 'You people.....your kind....'

And when my friends 19-yr-old son's boss said to him - 'I don't like black people but you're okay.'

Even my daughter at the time she was 8 and whilst walking through a narrow footpath on the wall she pointed out the words 'Black is bad.' As an 8 yr old she said that was mean.

Prejudice is ignorance, I think you are guilty of it and so am I. The difference between you and me is that I realise when I am being prejudice and I will stop and try and learn.

The statement of yours that I said that was the crux of this issue shows that you don't realise what prejudice is. The statement sums up modern Britain that a person doesn't realise when they are being prejudice and then the word racist becomes entwined with prejudice.

The majority of people don't realise that prejudice is so ingrained into the psyche that they are infact making a decision between racism and being prejudice. The racist is like the BNP and what they stand for and the prejudice - re-read the above real examples, they are not made up.

[Seadragon]

cont...

[Seadragon]

You raise 'Black on Black' crimes.......................I have to drop the girls of at trampoling and will continue on this thread in about half hour - sorry.

[jackthehat]

Seadragon - AOG will not do you the courtesy of providing a proper response to your long (very long) post............
He appears to be a man with firmly ingrained racist views, which he can either a) not see or b) see any wrong in holding.

You may do better to draw a firm line under this matter, for your own peace of mind.

[ummmm]

And to be honest....like it or not he is entitled to hold his own views.

[Quinlad]

To be honest, I never like to see threads aimed at one particular poster. It gives them more fodder if they have a persecution complex and/or a massive ego.

Just my opinion, like.

[Seadragon]

By the way, those that are feeding you are the ones who accept the way you are. That will wind some up. I enjoy some controversiality as well.

Okay..you raise black on black crimes in your news discussions, although white on white crimes are prevalent. But by highlighting colour awareness you disregard other important and applicable social and economic factors such as:

cultural, religious, financial, family, regional, class, education, addiction etc

For you the dominant issue is colour. And some of the stories you may highlight are of black youth crime.

Now Answerbank is a publicly accessible forum, put a question into Google and Answerbank appears as a popular site. Now just say a black 12-yr-old kid flicks into the site, onto the news section, see's a thread entitled 'Black, White or both', reads it thereby coming across your comment.

[Seadragon]

cont.....

[ummmm]

Do you really expect him to read all this?

[Seadragon]

Now just say 5-6 years later that kid is involved in a crime and Wow! this is hot news for Oldgit!! How fantastic and lets highlight it in the News section - see that kid like my friends's 19-yr-old son are subliminaly being poisoned by these underlying racial comments of yours in the first place.

Once read these comments are not easy to erase from the mind, especially the mind of that target, whichever way you look at it.

You should hold some responsibility for that if you are putting racial comments on a public website - and you title it 2010!

I have tried to highlight for you the effect of a racial comment. I am trying to show you that there is a very fine line between being controversial and prejudice/racist.

I am trying to show you that prejudice/racist attitudes are so ingrained into a person's psyche that those scars of the past are now etched internally into people.

You said 'Just because one doesn't agree with what another person has said, and providing that person has said nothing that is illegal, one should not insult that person by calling them a racist etc.'

And you talk also about British tolerance. Oldgit I think the members of Answerbank tolerant your comments frequently. However your stubborness as to the realisation or acceptance of your prejudice blinds you to arguments where people try and highlight this for you.

[Seadragon]

Can I not have my say?

What is wrong with you people?

The thread is addressed to Oldgit.

[Seadragon]

cont...

[Seadragon]

You can't blame anyone for losing their temper but in return where is your tolerance? The British values you so espouse are absent from your posts.

I consider your 2nd comment as racial incitement and I think you have crossed the line into offensiveness.

I am asking you to take responsibility Oldgit and realise that a comment/observation/statement can carry so much weight.

I am asking you to think about this before you post what you deem is simply a controversial comment.

I am asking you to think about this before you make that post on a public website.

I have finished speaking to you.

[jackthehat]

Seadragon - by all means have your say.
There are those of us picturing you hunched over your keyboard typing all this out to no good end.

The chances of AOG responding to this are decreasing in direct correlation to the number of pink boxes...............

Please don't come onto another thread tomorrow complaining that you didn't get any sort of response, satisfactory or otherwise.

[Seadragon]

Jack - I have no intention of starting another thread regarding this subject.

I have simply explained to him why 'the likes of' me ask him to apologise. Whether he does or not is his free choice.

An apology if gained by begging or demanding is worth nothing, this was an explanation to a response asking for an apology and on what basis it is asked for.

How you picture me is up to you but I don't hunch, not even over a computer.

I think I should take back that comment about Answerbank members being tolerant as it is evident that not all are.

I think Oldgit is a very clever guy and your comments such as 'his chances of responding to this are decreasing..', I would say fuels his ego more than my one attempt of explaination.

You do me no justice whatsoever.

Why don't you continue the news section, surely the World is not that boring.

[jackthehat]

Dear Seadragon,
Please do not get snippy with me.
As a long-time contributor to the 'News' section, and having run up against AOG on a variety of topics, I thought I may be able to be of some assistance to you.

However, if you prefer a more Quixotic approach to dealing with AOG I'm sure you don't need my permission or assistance or input.

[ll_billym]

That is 1,461 words so far Seadragon, and yes, I did a word count. I am not sure AOG or anyone else will read every word but I do agree about the British Empire In Colour, very good programme. In fact every one of the 'In Colour' series are excellent.