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Christmas0 min ago
What a result!
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I've just watched the last of the miners in Chile being successfully rescued - 33 men in under 22 hours! There are 6 more "lifts" to come, those of the rescuers that so bravely went down to aid the trapped men, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to doubt that the Fenix II capsule won't be able to finish the job - what a piece of kit that is!
What an astonishing demonstration of the human spirit triumphing over adversity this story has been. From the miners themselves, to the people on the ground that kept searching for them & then the entire rescue effort. Utterly amazing.
The courage, skill & commitment shown by everyone involved has been truly moving to watch & I for one (& for once!) am proud to be human.
Sorry, just wanted to share my happiness...
What an astonishing demonstration of the human spirit triumphing over adversity this story has been. From the miners themselves, to the people on the ground that kept searching for them & then the entire rescue effort. Utterly amazing.
The courage, skill & commitment shown by everyone involved has been truly moving to watch & I for one (& for once!) am proud to be human.
Sorry, just wanted to share my happiness...
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Yes Sqad I do
People for example who go off on how we don't produce anything in this country anymore despite the fact that we're still the world's 7th largest manufacturing nation.
You know the sort of person I'm sure - the sort of person who doesn't let facts interfere with their prejudices
And then goes off to salute the flag
People for example who go off on how we don't produce anything in this country anymore despite the fact that we're still the world's 7th largest manufacturing nation.
You know the sort of person I'm sure - the sort of person who doesn't let facts interfere with their prejudices
And then goes off to salute the flag
Interesting to read all the sentiment from everyone, and I join in these heart felt feelings, for these miners, the rescuers, and the families, so much so that I stayed up to 4-30am to see the last one escape.
But what went through my mind when I saw the miner's children, wives, girlfriends and the rest of the families, anxiously waiting for their loved one to appear, the tears, the smiles, the rejoicement?
Yes I thought about the exact same feelings that go through the families of the troops who have survived and returned safely from their 6 month tour in Afghanistan.
These guys have been away from their families for 6 months, never knowing if they would see them ever again, and each and every day they awake to wonder if it will be their turn to step on a mine or receive a bullet.
But it is funny that so many of those on this site who have been in tears over this mining tragedy, hardly ever shed a tear and sympathise with these brave men & women and their families.
But what went through my mind when I saw the miner's children, wives, girlfriends and the rest of the families, anxiously waiting for their loved one to appear, the tears, the smiles, the rejoicement?
Yes I thought about the exact same feelings that go through the families of the troops who have survived and returned safely from their 6 month tour in Afghanistan.
These guys have been away from their families for 6 months, never knowing if they would see them ever again, and each and every day they awake to wonder if it will be their turn to step on a mine or receive a bullet.
But it is funny that so many of those on this site who have been in tears over this mining tragedy, hardly ever shed a tear and sympathise with these brave men & women and their families.
AOG - the two situations are simply not comparable.
Every UK solider who goes to fight does so because it is part of their job - soldiers fight, that's what they do. During their time they are fed, see daylight, and although they work with an above average cahnce of injury or death, they are aware of the risks when they sign on and train.
Compare that with these poor men who work under apalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are then faced with the prospect of a long slow death with no chance to say goodbye to loved ones, or, as in this wonderful instance, a rescue which may still leave them with lasting mental trauma caused by the conditions they have endured.
I am aware of your unwavering support for the troops involved in the country;s invasions, but the two situatipons are too far apart to be remotely linked in any meaningful way.
How on earth you can equate the two is a mystery to me.
Every UK solider who goes to fight does so because it is part of their job - soldiers fight, that's what they do. During their time they are fed, see daylight, and although they work with an above average cahnce of injury or death, they are aware of the risks when they sign on and train.
Compare that with these poor men who work under apalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are then faced with the prospect of a long slow death with no chance to say goodbye to loved ones, or, as in this wonderful instance, a rescue which may still leave them with lasting mental trauma caused by the conditions they have endured.
I am aware of your unwavering support for the troops involved in the country;s invasions, but the two situatipons are too far apart to be remotely linked in any meaningful way.
How on earth you can equate the two is a mystery to me.
Just reading your exchange Andy, has only increased my feeling of a comparison of the two situations.
Obviously because of your obvious opposition to the 'Invasion' has you incorrectly called it, I know that you will never agree.
I myself do not agree with the situation we now find ourselves involved in, that is risking the lives of our troops to help a foreign government rid their country of insurgents.
But lets go through your argument point by point.
/// Every UK solider who goes to fight does so because it is part of their job, they are aware of the risks when they sign on and train.///
Every miner goes underground with all the risks involved, they know the risks when they choose to become a miner.
/// Compare that with these poor men who work under apalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are then faced Compare that with these poor men who work under apalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are then faced with the prospect of a long slow death with no chance to say goodbye to loved ones ///
Troops work under appalling conditions for a fraction of the money that some could earn as civilians, and they are also .Compare that with these poor men who work under appalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are also faced with the prospect of a long slow death with no chance to say goodbye to loved ones,.an experience which may leave them with lasting mental trauma caused by the conditions they have endured.
So Andy, putting your prejudices aside, can't you see the two situations are not too far apart to be linked in a meaningful way.
Obviously because of your obvious opposition to the 'Invasion' has you incorrectly called it, I know that you will never agree.
I myself do not agree with the situation we now find ourselves involved in, that is risking the lives of our troops to help a foreign government rid their country of insurgents.
But lets go through your argument point by point.
/// Every UK solider who goes to fight does so because it is part of their job, they are aware of the risks when they sign on and train.///
Every miner goes underground with all the risks involved, they know the risks when they choose to become a miner.
/// Compare that with these poor men who work under apalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are then faced Compare that with these poor men who work under apalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are then faced with the prospect of a long slow death with no chance to say goodbye to loved ones ///
Troops work under appalling conditions for a fraction of the money that some could earn as civilians, and they are also .Compare that with these poor men who work under appalling conditions for a fraction of the money, and are also faced with the prospect of a long slow death with no chance to say goodbye to loved ones,.an experience which may leave them with lasting mental trauma caused by the conditions they have endured.
So Andy, putting your prejudices aside, can't you see the two situations are not too far apart to be linked in a meaningful way.
I have re-read your post - and mine OAG, and on reflection, I do think that you have a point, and that my argument is weaker than i first thought as i wrote it.
I would therefore like to withdraw my point that there are no parallels to be drawn - having thought about it, and seen your reasoning, i can see that you are in fact correct, and i am in fact incorrect.
I would therefore like to withdraw my point that there are no parallels to be drawn - having thought about it, and seen your reasoning, i can see that you are in fact correct, and i am in fact incorrect.
I've just watched the 1pm news which included an interview with the Chilean prime minister. He admitted that his government was at fault for not having more stringent safety regs and they must sort this. How incredibly refreshing to hear this! Not passing the buck, not blaming previous govts, not slagging off previous political leaders, not blaming the weather/rest of the world/uncle Tom Cobley n all! Plus, when asked how much the whole operation had cost, he replied that it didn't matter. Puts our lot to shame.
Well thank you for that Andy, it takes a special kind of ABer to come to such a reasonable agreement.
I do hope that some others will now try and make a similar association with our troops, and go on to explain why they don't feel the same sentiment.
After all seeing those miner's little girls with tears running down their cheeks upon seeing their Daddies back safe and sound, can't be any different to a soldiers little girl after 6 long months, seeing her Daddy home safe and sound.
I do hope that some others will now try and make a similar association with our troops, and go on to explain why they don't feel the same sentiment.
After all seeing those miner's little girls with tears running down their cheeks upon seeing their Daddies back safe and sound, can't be any different to a soldiers little girl after 6 long months, seeing her Daddy home safe and sound.
I think this throws up an interesting aspect of modern society AOG.
Children go missing every day, every month, every year, but only poor little Madelaine McCann caused national headlines daily for so long - why is that?
Similarly, the grief over the death of Princess Diana caused such a national outpouring that ha never been seen before or since.
And now - as we both agree - the international interest in the fate of a group of miners has received coverage out of any proportion compared with the safe return of fighting forces.
Maybe we are in some way as embarassed about our forces as the US were after Viet Nam? God, I hope not! I may not agree with the reasons or actions of the armed forces, but in terms of soldiers in combat who are working as directed, I would hate to think they are shunned because we no longer agree with the reasons for their actions.
Children go missing every day, every month, every year, but only poor little Madelaine McCann caused national headlines daily for so long - why is that?
Similarly, the grief over the death of Princess Diana caused such a national outpouring that ha never been seen before or since.
And now - as we both agree - the international interest in the fate of a group of miners has received coverage out of any proportion compared with the safe return of fighting forces.
Maybe we are in some way as embarassed about our forces as the US were after Viet Nam? God, I hope not! I may not agree with the reasons or actions of the armed forces, but in terms of soldiers in combat who are working as directed, I would hate to think they are shunned because we no longer agree with the reasons for their actions.
I think your answer sums up the situation perfectly, as do the caparisons you have so skilfully highlighted eg.
Little Madelaine McCann
Death of Princess Diana
The extreme interest in the fate of a group of miners
All compared with the safe return of our own fighting forces.
Would make for a brand new question on it's own.
Little Madelaine McCann
Death of Princess Diana
The extreme interest in the fate of a group of miners
All compared with the safe return of our own fighting forces.
Would make for a brand new question on it's own.
I hesitate to ponder this AOG, but maybe the return, and indeed the deaths of serving personnel have become so much a part of our daily lives, that they are now woven into its fabric, rather than impacting as news items.
Witness the way in which the almost daily deaths of soliders in Afghanistan are creeping ever further down the news bulletins, when they used to be the opening item - and thus accorded a degree of import, now they are almost becoming as 'background' as the Dow Jones figures.
A tragedy to pile onto all the others.
Witness the way in which the almost daily deaths of soliders in Afghanistan are creeping ever further down the news bulletins, when they used to be the opening item - and thus accorded a degree of import, now they are almost becoming as 'background' as the Dow Jones figures.
A tragedy to pile onto all the others.
Yes this is the sad truth I fear, but putting politics aside the British public have never seemed to support our troops, the way they should.
Perhaps it is because this country of ours is not united the way it once was, this of course could be down to the fact that on one hand we are fighting believers of Islam, when we have a large community of Muslims at home.
No matter how our politicians try to collaborate with them, it still doesn't make Islam swallow the pill any easier. There is no hope that they would support our troops, and because of this some will not be seen to also offer support, which in turn causes others to reject Islam and it's followers.
Perhaps it is because this country of ours is not united the way it once was, this of course could be down to the fact that on one hand we are fighting believers of Islam, when we have a large community of Muslims at home.
No matter how our politicians try to collaborate with them, it still doesn't make Islam swallow the pill any easier. There is no hope that they would support our troops, and because of this some will not be seen to also offer support, which in turn causes others to reject Islam and it's followers.
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