ChatterBank2 mins ago
Booze Curbs That Work?
Asked to fill in an opinion survey recently on alcohol problems and minimum pricing, I said that I thought the availability of alcohol was a major factor in the social problems it caused, and not the price.
I believe that the poorer people who like a drink should not be discriminated against, but rather a return to more restrictive opening hours, reduced hours for clubs in particular, and designated alcohol outlets rather than the corner shop and supermarkets.
What do you think?
I believe that the poorer people who like a drink should not be discriminated against, but rather a return to more restrictive opening hours, reduced hours for clubs in particular, and designated alcohol outlets rather than the corner shop and supermarkets.
What do you think?
Answers
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I cannot quite agree, Geezer.
The licensing laws were relaxed over seven years ago. The “kiddie in a sweetshop” phase should have long since passed, but it has not. All the relaxations have done is to spread the trouble over a longer period each night.
This government (and the previous one) is attacking this problem from the wrong end. The vast majority of people who drink (and especially those who drink at home) cause nobody else any trouble. It is the minority who cannot behave themselves, but that minority is large enough to cause huge problems in some places.
It is the behaviour of this minority that needs to be addressed. Laws already exist to tackle public disorder and excessive drinking but they are not being enforced properly and where they are the penalties are rarely sufficient to deter others. Looking at the proposals (38p minimum for a can of lager, £10.71 for a litre of Vodka) I wonder just where the supporters of this legislation live. Do they seriously believe that such prices will deter excessive drinking, especially among the young?
Yesterday I read about”Vodka eyeballing.” This is a practice where neat Vodka is poured into one’s eyes. Those practising it believe (wrongly, so it seems) that they become intoxicated quicker than if they simply drink the stuff. The practice, so the article said, is particularly prevalent among students. These people are supposed to be among the more intelligent amongst us and also, so they’d have us believe, among the poorest.
Do our legislators really believe that pricing Vodka at a minimum of £10.71 a litre (which is about £3 lower than the cheapest I can see it at a quick glance) will deter this and similar lunacy such as “pre-loading”? They need to get real, stop interfering with the habits of the vast majority of drinkers who behave themselves and tackle those that cause disorder.
The licensing laws were relaxed over seven years ago. The “kiddie in a sweetshop” phase should have long since passed, but it has not. All the relaxations have done is to spread the trouble over a longer period each night.
This government (and the previous one) is attacking this problem from the wrong end. The vast majority of people who drink (and especially those who drink at home) cause nobody else any trouble. It is the minority who cannot behave themselves, but that minority is large enough to cause huge problems in some places.
It is the behaviour of this minority that needs to be addressed. Laws already exist to tackle public disorder and excessive drinking but they are not being enforced properly and where they are the penalties are rarely sufficient to deter others. Looking at the proposals (38p minimum for a can of lager, £10.71 for a litre of Vodka) I wonder just where the supporters of this legislation live. Do they seriously believe that such prices will deter excessive drinking, especially among the young?
Yesterday I read about”Vodka eyeballing.” This is a practice where neat Vodka is poured into one’s eyes. Those practising it believe (wrongly, so it seems) that they become intoxicated quicker than if they simply drink the stuff. The practice, so the article said, is particularly prevalent among students. These people are supposed to be among the more intelligent amongst us and also, so they’d have us believe, among the poorest.
Do our legislators really believe that pricing Vodka at a minimum of £10.71 a litre (which is about £3 lower than the cheapest I can see it at a quick glance) will deter this and similar lunacy such as “pre-loading”? They need to get real, stop interfering with the habits of the vast majority of drinkers who behave themselves and tackle those that cause disorder.
Looking over the channel, no problems really?
http://www.guardian.c...ance-drinking-problem
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7783979.stm
http://www.guardian.c...ance-drinking-problem
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7783979.stm
This is a topic on which i have banged on at length - and happy to continue -
The issue of our binge drinking culture has nothing at all to do with surroundings - hence the failure of the 'cafe society' that the Labour Party tragically inflicted on us.
It has nothing to do with cost - laughably low pricing does not help, but it's not the root cause.
No - the root cause is our attitude to being drunk.
A significant majority in this country don't drink to be sociable, or to enjoy the taste, they drink to be drunk.
For some, a 'good night out' can only be defined if one has drunk enough to cause brain and liver damage, and then brag about it to anyone who will listen.
You only have to look at the 'humourous' phrases we use for alcohol poisoning - 'trolleyed, smashed, hammered, mullered, ratted, blasted, blitzed' - and so on ad nauseum.
The British have always used the relaxant qualities of alcohol in social situations as a means to overcome at least some of the crippling sense of self-conciousness that is uniquely built in to the British psyche.
Now, it has reached the other extreme, where loss of bodily functions and an inability to recall actions and events are seen as a desirable status, to be achieved as quickly as possible.
The 'binge drinking culture' is just that - a culture - and the way to eradicate it is with proper education in schools.
If young people can be disabused of the notion that brain and liver damage with alcohol is the measure of a good time, then we will start to lose this distressing behavioural trend. While people equate alcxohol abuse with enjoyment, that is where the problem will remain.
Fannying about wiht pricing structures is not the ansser. It is about education, and self-repsect. Start there.
The issue of our binge drinking culture has nothing at all to do with surroundings - hence the failure of the 'cafe society' that the Labour Party tragically inflicted on us.
It has nothing to do with cost - laughably low pricing does not help, but it's not the root cause.
No - the root cause is our attitude to being drunk.
A significant majority in this country don't drink to be sociable, or to enjoy the taste, they drink to be drunk.
For some, a 'good night out' can only be defined if one has drunk enough to cause brain and liver damage, and then brag about it to anyone who will listen.
You only have to look at the 'humourous' phrases we use for alcohol poisoning - 'trolleyed, smashed, hammered, mullered, ratted, blasted, blitzed' - and so on ad nauseum.
The British have always used the relaxant qualities of alcohol in social situations as a means to overcome at least some of the crippling sense of self-conciousness that is uniquely built in to the British psyche.
Now, it has reached the other extreme, where loss of bodily functions and an inability to recall actions and events are seen as a desirable status, to be achieved as quickly as possible.
The 'binge drinking culture' is just that - a culture - and the way to eradicate it is with proper education in schools.
If young people can be disabused of the notion that brain and liver damage with alcohol is the measure of a good time, then we will start to lose this distressing behavioural trend. While people equate alcxohol abuse with enjoyment, that is where the problem will remain.
Fannying about wiht pricing structures is not the ansser. It is about education, and self-repsect. Start there.
Geezer not looking for an argument but haven't you just contradicted yourself?
In one comment you hold up the "drinking culture over the channel"
Then say "No one's saying no problems" If there are problems they can't be held as an example.
This is just another example of a media feeding frenzy. I for one would advocate a return to off licences but although its quite common (apparently) for drink fuelled problems to arise it wasn't uncommon in the past, it just wasn't reported.
Look at the evidence of your own eyes, howmany unconcious teenagers surronded by thier drunken mates have you driven, walked jogged past recently.
It happens, of course it does, but not on every street corner every night.
Perspective
In one comment you hold up the "drinking culture over the channel"
Then say "No one's saying no problems" If there are problems they can't be held as an example.
This is just another example of a media feeding frenzy. I for one would advocate a return to off licences but although its quite common (apparently) for drink fuelled problems to arise it wasn't uncommon in the past, it just wasn't reported.
Look at the evidence of your own eyes, howmany unconcious teenagers surronded by thier drunken mates have you driven, walked jogged past recently.
It happens, of course it does, but not on every street corner every night.
Perspective
agree completely with Andy, it's the mentality of those going out to get 'messy', I worked in a bar in Birkenhead for 10 years, pretty much a prime example of your classic town centre club, and you'd have those who'd be out to have a good night with a few drinks and you'd have those who just wanted to get as drunk as possible, shot after shot. I think for men it's seen as a macho think to be able to handle your drink so you push it and try and out do each other, the girls want to be crazier. I can't see an obvious solution as to how to handle this, everyone knows the risks, young adults are pretty much wired to try and impress each other and that's the trail of thought. The naive would maybe suggest more media prominence of tee total role models as opposed to the classic footballer / girl band member falling out of China Whites but it would never be as simple as that.
"Generally they have less problems on the continent".
Here in Greece (or at least, my small part of it) it's very rare to see a drunk Greek. Alcohol is still more freely available than in the UK, but the standard phrase for meeting up with people is "Let's go for coffee".
It's sad to see English people coming to live here, and immediately developing (or continuing) a habit for starting drinking around lunchtime and carrying on into the small hours.
I remember when Greece won Euro 2004, everybody was celebrating in the streets, but I saw only one person swigging from a lager can, and you can guess his nationality.
The drink problems in the UK have more to do with the miserable lifestyle than the availability of alcohol.
Here in Greece (or at least, my small part of it) it's very rare to see a drunk Greek. Alcohol is still more freely available than in the UK, but the standard phrase for meeting up with people is "Let's go for coffee".
It's sad to see English people coming to live here, and immediately developing (or continuing) a habit for starting drinking around lunchtime and carrying on into the small hours.
I remember when Greece won Euro 2004, everybody was celebrating in the streets, but I saw only one person swigging from a lager can, and you can guess his nationality.
The drink problems in the UK have more to do with the miserable lifestyle than the availability of alcohol.
-- answer removed --
because when I was a teen, throwing up in the street and doing stupid things wasn't thought to be clever or funny or even acceptable and certainly no part of an accepted night out...pride in drinking then was to hold your drink and not lose control...equally silly in terms of the amount consumed perhaps, but less socially offensive. At the time I lived in london and used to frequent the King's Road and quite a few pubs of various types around south london, also lived in Bristol. Most of our friends were students and merchant navy cadets and junior officers and they did know how to drink but the point was NOT to lose control, not to make displays such as are seen now.....and I think saying the british lifestyle is sad is an excuse and not a good one!
Current Licencing laws have little to do with the problem and R1 is right in what he says about previous laws. The Brits always have had the issue of necking it before closing, When the bell went there would be crowds getting in a couple to sup in the 20 mins drinking up time. This just bred binge dringing.
As R1 says, sit tight and it will settle, in exactly the same way as other cultural changes have happened. It is simply idiotic to expect change overnight.
Price too is not really a factor apart from some very underage drinkers. Like the knee jerk gun laws you just clobber the average (and majority) law abiding citizen.
As for the current problems, why not use the full force of the current laws? Stop lefty liberal do-gooding sentences and bang a few up and make the fine equal to the cost of the policing. Take licenes away from anyone serving to drunks or underage and as AOG says, send a bill for any NHS treatment.
As R1 says, sit tight and it will settle, in exactly the same way as other cultural changes have happened. It is simply idiotic to expect change overnight.
Price too is not really a factor apart from some very underage drinkers. Like the knee jerk gun laws you just clobber the average (and majority) law abiding citizen.
As for the current problems, why not use the full force of the current laws? Stop lefty liberal do-gooding sentences and bang a few up and make the fine equal to the cost of the policing. Take licenes away from anyone serving to drunks or underage and as AOG says, send a bill for any NHS treatment.
Woofgang:
I think its societal...irregardless of price and availability, where it is considered acceptable for folk to get throwing up drunk, pee in public etcetera, then that will continue to be the norm.
I 100% agree with you.
Bars are open almost 24hrs a day on the continent and they don't have the problem we have - except in tourist areas where the Brits have led by example.
I think its societal...irregardless of price and availability, where it is considered acceptable for folk to get throwing up drunk, pee in public etcetera, then that will continue to be the norm.
I 100% agree with you.
Bars are open almost 24hrs a day on the continent and they don't have the problem we have - except in tourist areas where the Brits have led by example.
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