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Muslim prejudice normal?
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Baroness Warsi is to say that prejudice against muslims has become socially acceptable and is the last basion of biggotry in this country is she right?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237
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Geezer.
3% of the UK is muslim. 97% aren't.
Your assumption on the birthrate of muslims is also out dated. The evidence is that muslims that were born here are not having very big families. Where their parents may have had 6+ children, I believe they are averaging about 3.5 (where the non muslims are at 2.0)
It will not be 20, 60, 200 years before the muslims are in the majority.
3% of the UK is muslim. 97% aren't.
Your assumption on the birthrate of muslims is also out dated. The evidence is that muslims that were born here are not having very big families. Where their parents may have had 6+ children, I believe they are averaging about 3.5 (where the non muslims are at 2.0)
It will not be 20, 60, 200 years before the muslims are in the majority.
Backing up Gromit on this...remember that YouTube film that became famous a couple of years ago (Islamification of Europe)? It claimed that the Muslim birth rate was double that of Westerners, which meant that within 80 years, Muslims would be in the majority in the UK.
This was pretty much trashed by Tim Hartford (from The Economist) on BBC4's 'More Or Less' podcast.
Apparently, birth rates in Muslim countries is SLIGHTLY higher than in the west 1.97 kids per couple, but there are no stats which support the assertion that Muslims in the west have a significantly higher birth rate.
This was pretty much trashed by Tim Hartford (from The Economist) on BBC4's 'More Or Less' podcast.
Apparently, birth rates in Muslim countries is SLIGHTLY higher than in the west 1.97 kids per couple, but there are no stats which support the assertion that Muslims in the west have a significantly higher birth rate.
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AOG I don't think it makes a lot of difference what religion SP is, thing is you look at most people from any walk of life and they all want the same things, a quiet life to love thier kids and keep thier jobs and they have the same worries as the rest of us bills, crime etc.
As time go's on they will be as secularised as the rest of society and it won't matter what religion they are. I understand its a big fear of the british muslim societies. The longer muslims are all tarred with the same brush the longer intigration will take.
Not every Irish catholic was a member of the IRA. It takes one person to detonate a bomb, it shouldn't take a million to accept the blame.
As time go's on they will be as secularised as the rest of society and it won't matter what religion they are. I understand its a big fear of the british muslim societies. The longer muslims are all tarred with the same brush the longer intigration will take.
Not every Irish catholic was a member of the IRA. It takes one person to detonate a bomb, it shouldn't take a million to accept the blame.
R1Geezer
The muslim birth rate has halved per family over a generation.
What is to say it will not normalise further with the next generation to something very similar to non muslim birth rates? It may not, but your assumption that it will always be higher may not either.
Totally anecdotal, but the few muslim families I know do not have large families, while a broccoli who goes in my boozer has 10 kids with 5 different mothers.
Maybe will will have a chav nation rather than a muslim one.
The muslim birth rate has halved per family over a generation.
What is to say it will not normalise further with the next generation to something very similar to non muslim birth rates? It may not, but your assumption that it will always be higher may not either.
Totally anecdotal, but the few muslim families I know do not have large families, while a broccoli who goes in my boozer has 10 kids with 5 different mothers.
Maybe will will have a chav nation rather than a muslim one.
AOG
I know because I have enough Muslim mates to recognise that their portrayal in some parts of the media is skewed.
I'm not sure whether it's fair to assume that a whole body of people support extremism just because they don't spend all their time writing to their local papers condemning it. I never assumed that every Catholic supported the IRA simply because they were Catholic!
I know because I have enough Muslim mates to recognise that their portrayal in some parts of the media is skewed.
I'm not sure whether it's fair to assume that a whole body of people support extremism just because they don't spend all their time writing to their local papers condemning it. I never assumed that every Catholic supported the IRA simply because they were Catholic!
Just to add to my earlier comment, the fact that she's being taken seriously on here, kind of proves the point.
If it had been the Pope that popped up and made similar comments (which I think he actually did recently with remarks about 'aggressive atheism') the reaction on here would be more like 'Oh put a sock in it you god-bothering old Nazi' - from EVERYONE on here, me included.
But because a muslim has said it, the same people are all nodding sagely and saying how terrible it is that Muslims are so abused.
If it had been the Pope that popped up and made similar comments (which I think he actually did recently with remarks about 'aggressive atheism') the reaction on here would be more like 'Oh put a sock in it you god-bothering old Nazi' - from EVERYONE on here, me included.
But because a muslim has said it, the same people are all nodding sagely and saying how terrible it is that Muslims are so abused.
I found this quite interesting, I wonder if AOG will completely ignore it - Muhammad Abdul Bari, general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain,: "We each have our own set of beliefs. This should really be a source of celebration rather than fear as long as we all clearly understand that we must abide by the laws of this country regardless of the faith we belong to,”
naomi's link isn't particularly about birthrate; it also mentions conversion and immigration.
And one other thing: "They said that it also suggested a growing willingness among believers to describe themselves as Muslims because the western reaction to war and terrorism had strengthened their sense of identity."
In other words - at least part of this isn't about increasing numbers of Muslims at all. It's just about Muslims ticking different boxes when identifying themselves. And those who did the survey appear to have no idea how much of their sample this includes.
There's another thread around here somewhere about the value of such surveys. They do need to be approached with extreme caution.
And one other thing: "They said that it also suggested a growing willingness among believers to describe themselves as Muslims because the western reaction to war and terrorism had strengthened their sense of identity."
In other words - at least part of this isn't about increasing numbers of Muslims at all. It's just about Muslims ticking different boxes when identifying themselves. And those who did the survey appear to have no idea how much of their sample this includes.
There's another thread around here somewhere about the value of such surveys. They do need to be approached with extreme caution.
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