Listener Crossword 4099: Double Devilry by Pointer

[Zabadak]

A nice challenge and a clever construction, but as you can see, a quick finish. I'm interested to know whether others see what to do before or after discerning the 10 letter word. Cheers to Pointer, and now to find something else to do over the weekend.

[Scorpius]

I'm afraid I detest Printer's Devilry puzzles. I thought they'd been abandoned since I've not come across one in the 6 or 7 years I've been solving the Listener.

I've only just looked at the puzzle and did quickly get a couple of words that might be the answers to two clues, but without any definitions I've no idea whether they are right or not.
With no definitions and no wordplay, the term, 'clues' strikes me as a complete misnomer.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Finally got the robbers and can at last see the point of it all. Having originally agreed with cluelessJoe (porridge porridge and more porridge) I'm now inclined to give it some respect. Very neat.

[tristram37]

Very easy - I completed the whole thing whilst listening to the 2 Brandenburg Concertos Proms on Radio 3, so my attention wasn't fully on the puzzle. An occasional PD is OK - I think it was Apex who used to pop a few PD clues into one of his gallimaufry type puzzles, but I can't recall a complete puzzle with them, though Ximenes used to have one or two a year. There was a movement to create PDD clues - ie including a definition in the doctored version. But it never really caught on. Maybe it made the puzzle too easy.

[Clamzy]

The theme made it possible for me to complete without solving all the "clues" once again.
I share my old friends' reservations about this type of puzzle but don't want to be too hypocritical, having been a long time advocate of number puzzles. I think I'll go along with daagg - variety is the spice etc.

[kwyjibo]

I'd give this about 3 out of 10. Wasn't there a Listener once that was all letter mixture clues? That one was even worse than this.

[cluelessJoe]

pushmi-pullyu ... maybe I was a little unfair. This was actually a very cleverly constructed theme, doubtless one which would catch the eye of the editors. As has been observed elsewhere, it probably gave the setter great pleasure to finalise such a feat.
Sadly that does not translate into equal measures of satisfaction for the solver (or a significant proportion of solvers) - which is what should really matter in a Listener puzzle. For that reason it resembles those aforementioned porridge courses - though I must now concede that there was a light sprinkling of sugar on the dessert.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Agreed cluelessJoe. Let's hope that next week we get soup, main course and pudding.

[contendo]

I love the way everyone on this site follows unwritten rules of not giving too much away, though midazolam and Zabadak I think telling us the wrong answers you've made is stepping over the line. It's a bit more than a nudge for those of us who've made the same mistakes.

[midazolam]

Fair point contendo. If you don't want wrong answers here either so be it. I was one of the early advocates for keeping this site going by not giving away answers (or blatant help with denouements). Lets continue to keep the peace.

[contendo]

Thanks midazolam. I'm all for peace.

[flocker]

As a relative beginner here I find the grid-filling instructions less than clear. For example, I've solved the first clue ("Unlike most...") and have a word of 6 letters. I enter this in the first across line of the grid. 3 letters are then left blank in that row after my word. What happens now? Does the 6 letter answer to the second clue ("Any sensitive .." go in the second row? And where are the clues for the 3 letter words. Or am I horribly missing the point ......?

[Staurologist]

Why is this the correct thread and the other the wrong one? Philoctetes started the other at 16.55 on Friday 13th and Zabadak this one at 17.37 on the same triskaidekaphobic day. Zabadak should not have assumed that no thread had already been started.

[perseverer]

This thread is under the Crosswords topic heading, where Listener threads are usually placed, while the other one is in the more general Quizzes and Puzzle,

[Eril]

Flocker: Each answer will go in a separate line/column (see earlier in this thread for a reminder of how down clues are ordered - something I forgot and so needlessly confused myself). However the 6 letter answer can go at the beginning OR end of the line (the unclued three letter word that you will have to deduce filling in the remainder of the line).
(NB This has been vetted to ensure that it only clarifies the instructions!)

[Eril]

This is a vote for what is a good puzzle with well constructed PD clues. The place to insert is discernable, and the rest of the clue in each case gives heavy hints as to the answer - as long as you accept that the answer was actually the completed sentence. Definitely not porridge. Short? Yes - but more would have been too much. A mixture of clue types? That would be enjoyable, but sometimes it is nice just to have a small slice of rich pate.

[IntoTheBlue]

My initial despair and dislike of seeing a crossword of the PD ilk has gradually given way to a grudging admiration of the construction and fluency of the corrected surface readings.

Whilst I wouldn't like to see too many crosswords of this type a year I don't see the problem of having one every once in a while especially if it's as good as this one.

IntoTheBlue

[poorsolver]

I love PD puzzles and this was just right for me. I look forward to Azed's annual PD puzzle as well. I detest other types of puzzle. If we were all the same, it would be boring.

[teuchter2]

I don't particularly like this type of clue, but they are not too difficult as they do relate to the context even though not defined. With five grandchildren visiting yesterday my time was limited, but I had more than half the answers worked out by bedtime and was quickly able to finish them off today when realisation of what was happening helped me with the rest. How rare it is to get three penalties in one game and how great to be top of the league, even if only for a week!

[Ruthrobin]

Eril, I loved your small slice of rich pate! Just imagine if you were the compiler who had spent weeks polishing this little gem and (though I doubt this occurs) logged into the Answerbank and read the curmudgeonly reactions of this set of solvers. I'd rather have a fine little crossword like this than the hours we labour with misprints and clashing letters most weeks.

[tweaker]

Just finished. What a fantastic puzzle - so easy - once you know what's going on. I can't believe some regular Listener solvers are avoiding this crossword. It's extremely well designed. The folk who avoided this will kick themselves for missing out on such a gem.

Thank you Pointer. Top puzzle!