Bbc News, Integrtion Has Not Worked With Muslims

[dieseldick]

just heard it on news, they were talking about muslims integrating into germany and merkel now has a massive task on her hands to find a solution to the problem, they talked about the problems that faced france and jaques chirac banning of the burhka etc when he was in charge, german security experts are now saying that they believe isis teams are active in germany asfter coming into the country disquised as refugees , wow really !! .

for me , the fact is that muslims cant intergrate fully with western society, i mean look what they are taught in their koran , such verses here - “Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123 also here - Quran 8:59-60 / Quran 2:286 / Quran 3:147 / Quran 8:12 /

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

so there you have it in black and white, how to hell can these people fit in with us, i cannot see any solution to the problem.

merkel and co have only added to the problems .

[dieseldick]

nevermind, theres another video from pat condell on a similar topic .

https://youtu.be/INll6Y5iqbM

[jambutty]

birdie at 00:42 EXCELLENT post.

[andy-hughes]

dieseldick - //you cannot get away from the fact that islam is an evil cult ! it is not a religion. come off with all the drivel and excuses you want. //

I can get away from it, because it is not true.

//the world at large is now seeing islam for what it really is . //

The media at large panders to fear and paranoia because it attracts attention.

//pat condell is right , you on the otherhand have more insight than an ostrich. //

Your opinion - and only your opinion.

//pat condell " nonsensical arguments " okay , you go ahead and tell us what he is saying is untrue , we are waiting. //

No - you are waiting, I see no support for this nonsense from anywhere else on the thread.

[andy-hughes]

dieseldick- //Question Author

wow. that video i posted yesterday has now been removed by youtube since yesterday, i just tried to watch it again. it was on youtube for more than a year and now suddenly it has been taken off .

hmmmm..................... //

Just to set your mind at rest, I did not have the video removed.

[andy-hughes]

dieseldick - //nevermind, theres another video from pat condell on a similar topic .

https://youtu.be/INll6Y5iqbM //

Thank heavens for that! I was wondering where I would have to go next time I wanted to hear an anonymous individual spouting biased an unsubstantiated drivel on the internet.

[andy-hughes]

I've just googled Pat Condell - it advises that he 'used to be a comedian' - I would suggest that on the basis of he videos, he still is!

[naomi24]

Andy-hughes, by your own admission you know nothing about Islam so it follows that you are not in a position to deem anything anyone else says on the subject “biased and unsubstantiated drivel”. You wouldn’t know. Birdie offered you an accurate analogy at 00:42 Sun.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //Andy-hughes, by your own admission you know nothing about Islam so it follows that you are not in a position to deem anything anyone else says on the subject “biased and unsubstantiated drivel”. You wouldn’t know. Birdie offered you an accurate analogy at 00:42 Sun. //

I have got the message that you don't have a high opinion of me in terms of debating the Muslim faith.

Anyone else on here who has the slightest interest will have got the message by now.

On the basis that you are not going to get another response from me on this issue - isn't it time to just concede that you have made your point ad nauseum, and just give it a rest?

[Khandro]

Andy;
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

Ludwig Wittgenstein

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //Andy;
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

Ludwig Wittgenstein //

I have said before - as have others - that a level of knowledge on a subject is not directly proportional to the right of a poster to offer an opinion on this section - or any other.

If it were, the entire section would be boring in the extreme, as 'experts' sought to out-do each other with their 'superior knowledge' and the entire site would be shut inside a week.

Fortunately, that is not how the AB operates.

Anyone is entitled to offer a view, or debate a point, with any level of knowledge, from expert down to zero, and any point in between, and the attempts by some to deride others' views on the perceived basis of their lack of expertise is happily doing nothing to dent that system, which is a foundation of the AB as a whole.

If you and others find yourself shaking your head at the lack of knowledge of the majority on here, instead of trying to tell them that they are not entitled to hold a view because you perceive and others perceive their view as being beneath your own - why not simply adjourn to a more lofty arena, where your input would be appreciated.

In short - if you have an opinion or a view, then you are very welcome to offer it, as do I, as do others.

What you are not entitled to do is to patronise and deride people whose views vary from yours, simply because you have decided, without desirable evidence, that you know best.

Of course, if you wish to continue this approach, please join me over in Music, where I will bat you off the park on a daily basis.

[naomi24]

Andy-hughes, whether or not you respond to me is irrelevant. You are consistently posting inaccurate and misleading information on a complex subject of which you know nothing and whilst you continue to do that, no, I will not ‘give it a rest’.

[douglas9401]

If those who post long answers, padded out with the whole of what they're replying to, were allowed to go unchallenged it may give the erroneous impression that that poster was indeed expert and had much information to impart.
That, of course, would be wrong on many occasions and so it's just as well others take the time to remind members, perhaps new to the site, that 'post early, post often' doesn't always mean content based on fact or knowledge.
Music? I'd probably concede that, not having that big a collection.

[andy-hughes]

douglas - //If those who post long answers, padded out with the whole of what they're replying to, were allowed to go unchallenged it may give the erroneous impression that that poster was indeed expert and had much information to impart. //

That may be true - but on the subject of Islam, I have made no secret of the fact that my knowledge is basic, and heaven knows the entire site is reminded of it by others every time I post.

But I never try and pass myself off as an 'expert' - I leave that to others.

My point is, my opinions and views are just that, I am tired of being pounced on every day for giving a view to which I am entitled. If it is a subject about which I know I will say so, and if not, again I will say so, but I not going to be constantly upbraided for expressing a view to which I am entitled by those who believe that 'knowledge is power'. It makes those posters boorish and pompous to be endlessly posting against me, to say nothing of tedious for everyone else.

So let's take it as read, as I state for the umpteenth time that I am entitled to express a view and an opinion, and expertise is not a pre-requisite. It s not for everyone else, and it is not for me, so please can those responsible either transfer their vitriol to someone else for a change, or simply bask in their own superior knowledge, and leave us mere mortals to speak as we find.

[naomi24]

Andy-hughes, there is nothing vitriolic in saying you are wrong about Islam. You are. If we were talking about music it wouldn’t matter but since we are talking about something that has an enormous influence on billions of the world’s population and is having a dreadfully adverse effect on this planet it is important that people are not persuaded by the unqualified into believing otherwise. I’m at a loss to understand why you think those here who have studied the subject are wrong. It makes no sense.

[fiction-factory]

Maybe debate on issues relating to Islam is pointless on AB as there is a handful who claim to know so much about it that no other view will be countenanced

[fiction-factory]

But I am sure none of this debate, discussion, hounding, nitpicking, repetition and reposting of teh same points time and time again changes anyone's views on these matters

[Baldric]

FF, you forgot to mention those who appear to be in denial.

[naomi24]

fiction-factory, where substantiation is freely available contradictory and unqualified ‘views’ cannot rationally be considered valid. See Birdie's post at 00:42 Sun.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //Andy-hughes, there is nothing vitriolic in saying you are wrong about Islam. You are. If we were talking about music it wouldn’t matter but since we are talking about something that has an enormous influence on billions of the world’s population and is having a dreadfully adverse effect on this planet it is important that people are not persuaded by the unqualified into believing otherwise. I’m at a loss to understand why you think those here who have studied the subject are wrong. It makes no sense. //

You appear to have taken the role of 'fact policewoman' on yourself, lord alone knows why - it is not deserved.

If I print something which you believe to be wrong (and that does not mean that it is wrong, it is just your view) - then learn to live with it, and desist from constantly popping up to tell everyone who is right and who is wrong.

It is not for you to say who knows or does not know enough to comment - so please desist from taking over each and every thread with your need to correct people who are simply offering a view, to which they are entitled.

Hogging threads with your endless criticism of me is becoming unacceptable.

I have tried to stop it by advising I will no longer debate with you, that has not worked.

So again, for the sake of the threads, the site, and my sanity, leave me alone.

[fiction-factory]

Yes, I didn't mention the apologists either, Baldric -(AB definition of an apologist: someone who correctly shows that a statement was inaccurate)