Do you need moral guidance?

[naomi24]

http://www.channel4.c...thoughttv/4od#3314326

I found the implications of this video rather disturbing. This man appears to be saying that he adheres to an acceptable moral code only because he fears the negative consequences of his actions - as taught by Islam - in the next life. He then talks about children needing moral guidance, but still he relies upon an outside source – Islam and the Koran - to provide it. Surely, as an adult, he knows right from wrong, and should be capable of living a decent lifestyle, and of teaching his children to do the same without abnegating his responsibility and without this feeble dependency?

[woofgang]

well naomi yes and no. I agree with the doing it for fear of punishment thing but decent people are not born decent. They become decent (by our definition) by being taught by other decent people.

[Old_Geezer]

Who is the authority on what is decent ?

[woofgang]

excellent question.

[naomi24]

Woofgang, we are all taught - that's a given.

OG, most of us are, hopefully, aware of what is socially acceptable behaviour and what is not.

[Old_Geezer]

If I look at some societies, especially those from the past, I may conclude that the majority held immoral viewpoints, and yet it would have been they who defined what was socially acceptable in those societies. Were they immoral, or am I ?

[naomi24]

OG, I don't know you. I've no idea if you are immoral - but if you are I presume you haven't been taught to fear punishment in the afterlife.

[cathfromsaron]

no i hope i know how to behave, and also enjoy the freedom to drive and having an education, unlike women in some muslim controlled countries!

[sandyRoe]

The prospect of eternal hell fire has kept many a potential sinner on the straight and narrow.

[naomi24]

^^ I know - and that's exactly the point. What keeps the rest of us on the straight and narrow?

[sandyRoe]

I think atheists have teams of Guardian Angels appointed to watch over them. I can see no other reason.

[woofgang]

indeed we are all taught...some of us are taught to carry knives and guns, rob intimidate, rape and so on.

[naomi24]

^^ That's irrelevant. We're talking about those who stay on the 'straight and narrow', as Sandy puts it.

[sandyRoe]

And atheists, seeing the exemplary lives of many theists, may ape their behaviour.

[naomi24]

Ha ha! I'll treat that ^^ with the contempt it deserves. ;o)

[woofgang]

so the discussion is about what makes good people good, not about what makes people good?

[jomifl]

Keyplus, jesus does not need 'pbuh' after his name, he wasn't a muslim as islam was invented about 500 years after his death, also( if he existed) he is dead, that is about as peaceful as anyone can get. I would suggest that it is far more likely that people would follow a moral code of their own devising if they have the intellect so to do. If they are brought up in a society free of gratuitous violence, self rightiousness and vengeance, then they have more hope of becoming moral people who benefit society and it's future (and their descendants).

[naomi24]

Woofgang, oh, dear. Tell you what - let’s go back to the original question –‘Do you need moral guidance?’ - and take it from there.

Dave, meant to say earlier, just making an effort to keep the section lively, you know. ;o)

[woofgang]

Do you mean any moral guidance at all? Or do I need more than I have from previous learning and experience or is the question " does an individual need moral guidance"
With respect, that s a different question from "does a child need to be guided by the fear of punishment in the afterlife?" to which my answer as someone who believes on god is a resounding no!

On the other hand, hypothetically, if the only way that a hardened and thoroughly unpleasant individual could be made to behave in a kind and decent way was by the threat of hellfire (not saying its possible, just hypothetical) would that be wrong?

[naomi24]

Woofgang, the question is ‘Do you need moral guidance?’ Simple enough, I’d have thought.

[woofgang]

Okay then the answer is yes, no and maybe.