Radio Times Wordfinder Week 51
Crosswords1 min ago
Is It In In Any Holy Book ?
94 Answers
We have about 20 theists who contribute to Answer Bank so surely they can answer my simple question.
When Noah released all the animals on top of Mount Ararat or wherever
what did they live on ? The world was dead, all living organisms , plants and animals had been drowned by God's flood.
Nowadays whenever land is inundated with water for more than a few days it takes years to recover. So what happened to Noah's family and all those animals. How did they survive ?
goodlife, you have read the bible carefully so maybe you can tell me
the answer even if the other theists can't.
When Noah released all the animals on top of Mount Ararat or wherever
what did they live on ? The world was dead, all living organisms , plants and animals had been drowned by God's flood.
Nowadays whenever land is inundated with water for more than a few days it takes years to recover. So what happened to Noah's family and all those animals. How did they survive ?
goodlife, you have read the bible carefully so maybe you can tell me
the answer even if the other theists can't.
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May I remind you all the the world was covered in water in excess of 10 months before the tops of mountains appeared.
The reference to 150 days was when the flood level had dropped enough for the ark to ground on Ararat. Gen8:3:4
#If you read Genesis 8:5 it says in the tenth month the tops of mountains became visible . 40 days later the raven still kept flying back to the ark.
If you read genesis 8:8 the dove came back because there was no dry land. #
The reference to 150 days was when the flood level had dropped enough for the ark to ground on Ararat. Gen8:3:4
#If you read Genesis 8:5 it says in the tenth month the tops of mountains became visible . 40 days later the raven still kept flying back to the ark.
If you read genesis 8:8 the dove came back because there was no dry land. #
The Bible describes a vessel about 437 feet long, with a length-to-height ratio of 10 to 1 and a length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1. (Genesis 6:15)—longer than a football field and as high as a three-story building. The ark was not a ship; it needed only to float.
Now, Noah was no shipbuilder. And remember, this was more than 4,000 years ago! Yet, the ark was built with proportions that were ideal for its function as a floating container. In fact, modern naval architects have found similar ratios suitable for structural integrity and stability on the open seas. Although the Bible does not specify the exact length of time Noah spent building the ark, the account allows for construction that took 50 or 60 years.
In Genesis 6 : 15 we read: - And this is how you will make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width, and thirty cubits its height. This would be about 437 ft long, with a ratio of 10:1 for height and 6:1 for width. You also have to remember that Noah was no shipbuilder, and this took place more than 4,000 years ago. However, the ark was built to function as a floating container. In fact, in a recent talk, I heard that modern naval architects have found that these ratios were suitable for structural and stability on the open sea. Although it is not known exactly how long Noah spent on building the ark, it is suggested 50 or 60 years.
And they spent one lunar year and 10 days in the ark.
Genesis 6 : 21 tells us - And as for you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them.”
As any good housewife would know, if you are expecting the shops to be closed for any length of time, you would ensure you have enough food in the house, and more, to last you for the expected period. This would be the same for Noah. So it would stand to reason that he would ensure his food stocks would be more than sufficient.
As to where the water came from - During the second "creative day,” when the earth’s atmospheric “expanse” was formed, there were waters “beneath the expanse” and waters “above the expanse.”
Genesis 1:6, - 8 reads - And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.” Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.
The waters “beneath” were those already on earth. The waters “above” were huge quantities of moisture suspended high above the earth, forming a “vast watery deep.” These waters fell upon the earth in Noah’s day.
What happened to the floodwaters after the Flood? They must have drained into the sea basins because scientists believe that the continents rest on huge plates. Movement of these plates can cause changes in the level of the earth’s surface.
Now, Noah was no shipbuilder. And remember, this was more than 4,000 years ago! Yet, the ark was built with proportions that were ideal for its function as a floating container. In fact, modern naval architects have found similar ratios suitable for structural integrity and stability on the open seas. Although the Bible does not specify the exact length of time Noah spent building the ark, the account allows for construction that took 50 or 60 years.
In Genesis 6 : 15 we read: - And this is how you will make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width, and thirty cubits its height. This would be about 437 ft long, with a ratio of 10:1 for height and 6:1 for width. You also have to remember that Noah was no shipbuilder, and this took place more than 4,000 years ago. However, the ark was built to function as a floating container. In fact, in a recent talk, I heard that modern naval architects have found that these ratios were suitable for structural and stability on the open sea. Although it is not known exactly how long Noah spent on building the ark, it is suggested 50 or 60 years.
And they spent one lunar year and 10 days in the ark.
Genesis 6 : 21 tells us - And as for you, take for yourself every sort of food that is eaten; and you must gather it to yourself, and it must serve as food for you and for them.”
As any good housewife would know, if you are expecting the shops to be closed for any length of time, you would ensure you have enough food in the house, and more, to last you for the expected period. This would be the same for Noah. So it would stand to reason that he would ensure his food stocks would be more than sufficient.
As to where the water came from - During the second "creative day,” when the earth’s atmospheric “expanse” was formed, there were waters “beneath the expanse” and waters “above the expanse.”
Genesis 1:6, - 8 reads - And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.” Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.
The waters “beneath” were those already on earth. The waters “above” were huge quantities of moisture suspended high above the earth, forming a “vast watery deep.” These waters fell upon the earth in Noah’s day.
What happened to the floodwaters after the Flood? They must have drained into the sea basins because scientists believe that the continents rest on huge plates. Movement of these plates can cause changes in the level of the earth’s surface.
The ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat, situated in present-day eastern Turkey.
Noah and his family went out of the ark onto dry land one year after the Flood had started and began anew the normal routine of life.
It is fairly obvious that the ark would not come to land on the top of a mountain, Noah and his family, together with the animals were not mountaineers!
There is no definite resting place mentioned in the Genesis account, just that it says in Ch. 8 v 4 - And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar′a·rat.
So it may well have come to rest in a valley amongst the mountains.
Noah and his family went out of the ark onto dry land one year after the Flood had started and began anew the normal routine of life.
It is fairly obvious that the ark would not come to land on the top of a mountain, Noah and his family, together with the animals were not mountaineers!
There is no definite resting place mentioned in the Genesis account, just that it says in Ch. 8 v 4 - And in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ar′a·rat.
So it may well have come to rest in a valley amongst the mountains.
Modeller@
After the flood waters started to recede, which would be about 150 days, and Noah stayed in the ark for just over 1 year. (about 370 days)
It is possible that vegetation would have started to grow. How long does it take for grass to grow? A gardener does not wait years for his vegetables to grow, nor does a farmer wait long for his grain etc to ripen. Hence it is reasonable to conclude that there would have been some seeds planted whilst in the ark and then perhaps transferred to the ground when the flood waters had gone. This of course is only guess work as the Bible does not go into every single detail, otherwise the book would be far to big and heavy to read/carry around. Obviously some things are left to the readers discernment.
After the flood waters started to recede, which would be about 150 days, and Noah stayed in the ark for just over 1 year. (about 370 days)
It is possible that vegetation would have started to grow. How long does it take for grass to grow? A gardener does not wait years for his vegetables to grow, nor does a farmer wait long for his grain etc to ripen. Hence it is reasonable to conclude that there would have been some seeds planted whilst in the ark and then perhaps transferred to the ground when the flood waters had gone. This of course is only guess work as the Bible does not go into every single detail, otherwise the book would be far to big and heavy to read/carry around. Obviously some things are left to the readers discernment.
Billym@
A classification of animals is to be noted in God’s instructions to Noah to take with him into the ark seven of each clean animal and two of each unclean animal.
Genesis 7 v 2 & 3 says: Of every clean beast you must take to yourself by sevens, the sire and its mate; and of every beast that is not clean just two, the sire and its mate; also of the flying creatures of the heavens by sevens, male and female, to preserve offspring alive on the surface of the entire earth.
Encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list
The Bible does not say that he had to preserve alive every variety of the animals. Rather, it states: “Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive.” - Genesis 6:20. Jehovah God knew it was necessary to save only representative members of the different “kinds,” since they would reproduce in variety after the Flood.
A classification of animals is to be noted in God’s instructions to Noah to take with him into the ark seven of each clean animal and two of each unclean animal.
Genesis 7 v 2 & 3 says: Of every clean beast you must take to yourself by sevens, the sire and its mate; and of every beast that is not clean just two, the sire and its mate; also of the flying creatures of the heavens by sevens, male and female, to preserve offspring alive on the surface of the entire earth.
Encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list
The Bible does not say that he had to preserve alive every variety of the animals. Rather, it states: “Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive.” - Genesis 6:20. Jehovah God knew it was necessary to save only representative members of the different “kinds,” since they would reproduce in variety after the Flood.
Truthabounds, // the Bible does not go into every single detail, otherwise the book would be far to big and heavy to read/carry around.//
That’s just a silly thing to say – but any port in a storm I suppose. ;o)
The thing is, it doesn’t explain what the carnivorous creatures ate either. Birds of prey for example. How were they fed? Did Noah take many more than the two of their favourite delicacies he had to keep alive with him aboard the ark – enough to last for the duration of their incarceration – so they always had fresh meat to kill? And how did he keep the already dead meat fresh for the lions, etc? After such a length of time it would have been putrid! You worm (sorry ‘bout that) around an explanation for the rapid return of plant life, but since all animal life that wasn’t aboard the ark was destroyed, dinner for the carnivores must have been impossible to come by once they were released - and if they'd have resorted to eating each other few of them would have lasted long enough to breed. No matter what sort of spin you put on it, the story just doesn’t gel.
That’s just a silly thing to say – but any port in a storm I suppose. ;o)
The thing is, it doesn’t explain what the carnivorous creatures ate either. Birds of prey for example. How were they fed? Did Noah take many more than the two of their favourite delicacies he had to keep alive with him aboard the ark – enough to last for the duration of their incarceration – so they always had fresh meat to kill? And how did he keep the already dead meat fresh for the lions, etc? After such a length of time it would have been putrid! You worm (sorry ‘bout that) around an explanation for the rapid return of plant life, but since all animal life that wasn’t aboard the ark was destroyed, dinner for the carnivores must have been impossible to come by once they were released - and if they'd have resorted to eating each other few of them would have lasted long enough to breed. No matter what sort of spin you put on it, the story just doesn’t gel.
Just a few points concerning the flood water and land.
1.Wherever the water came from it would have mixed with the oceans and therefore the flood water would be salty.
2.Therefore the fresh water fauna and flora would have died.
3.Most marine flora and fauna cannot live in diluted salt water so they would have died as well.
4. Land that is inundated with salt water becomes toxic and depending on the soil takes one to ten years to recover.
5. Mountainous regions are not productive and the Ararat area is normally barren which combined with salt would barely support lichens and moss.
6. Fresh water would also be a problem it would take weeks if ever before adequate water was available for animals for plants. I say if ever because today the area is barren and doesn't support much flora and fauna.
7, Most of the ark's animals were herbivores and require to eat their own weight in plant material each day and we know from a previous post that would be about 11 tons a day plus a similar amout of water.
8. Land that has been inundated has had most of the nutrients leached out and the micro organisms essential for growth have died. That's how peat bogs are formed. So apart from any toxicity the soil would be effectively dead which would require years to recover.
9. The first pioneer plants to grow are very low in their nutritious content and they are followed by low coarse grasses.
10.These early plants are also toxic to many animals because of their sodium chloride content.
In conclusion if all these 16,000 animals were able to leave the Ararat area and travel to less barren areas they would still not find food. As God said he had destroyed the world.
1.Wherever the water came from it would have mixed with the oceans and therefore the flood water would be salty.
2.Therefore the fresh water fauna and flora would have died.
3.Most marine flora and fauna cannot live in diluted salt water so they would have died as well.
4. Land that is inundated with salt water becomes toxic and depending on the soil takes one to ten years to recover.
5. Mountainous regions are not productive and the Ararat area is normally barren which combined with salt would barely support lichens and moss.
6. Fresh water would also be a problem it would take weeks if ever before adequate water was available for animals for plants. I say if ever because today the area is barren and doesn't support much flora and fauna.
7, Most of the ark's animals were herbivores and require to eat their own weight in plant material each day and we know from a previous post that would be about 11 tons a day plus a similar amout of water.
8. Land that has been inundated has had most of the nutrients leached out and the micro organisms essential for growth have died. That's how peat bogs are formed. So apart from any toxicity the soil would be effectively dead which would require years to recover.
9. The first pioneer plants to grow are very low in their nutritious content and they are followed by low coarse grasses.
10.These early plants are also toxic to many animals because of their sodium chloride content.
In conclusion if all these 16,000 animals were able to leave the Ararat area and travel to less barren areas they would still not find food. As God said he had destroyed the world.
modeller, naomi, EDDIE51 and others, why are you wasting your time?
The list of absurdities in the Noah fairytale would fill a page just as headings but it would have no effect on Truthabounds (a misnomer if ever there was one). His philosophy is obviously "My mind is made up; don't confuse me with facts."
All you're doing is giving him an excuse to quote huge chunks of the bible at you (as if you had no copies of your own). He wallows in that.
Still, I suppose that you're just being kind in this season of goodwill.
The list of absurdities in the Noah fairytale would fill a page just as headings but it would have no effect on Truthabounds (a misnomer if ever there was one). His philosophy is obviously "My mind is made up; don't confuse me with facts."
All you're doing is giving him an excuse to quote huge chunks of the bible at you (as if you had no copies of your own). He wallows in that.
Still, I suppose that you're just being kind in this season of goodwill.
Chakka you have to admit he does give us food for thought and opens up other lines of research into ship building , nutrition and agriculture etc.
I admire Truthabounds he is willing to defend his beliefs and is prepared to give full detailed explanations which is more that can be said for the other theists we hear from.
His recent post on evolution is an example :
#Now, Noah was no shipbuilder. And remember, this was more than 4,000 years ago! #
He said all these events took place more than 4000 years ago so I assume its within a few 1000 years. So maybe its as much as 8,000.
However he said that today there are over one milliion species in the world which could have evolved from the 16,000 on the Ark. However I would like to know how that was possible in such a short period of time because this 16,000 was only 8000 species , only one male and one female for each species and bearing in mind there is almost no cross fertilisation between the species , each species would start with two
,therefore each pair's descendants would have to produce 125 mutations to achieve the million species we have today.
Now the interesting thing is that Noah's family of about 8 people didn't produce different species, as far as we know, but they did produce all the Chinese ,the Africans, Indians , Asians , Europeans, Eskimos etc. What is more they achieved this feat almost immediately because we know that all these races were around also 4000+ years ago.
I do want to be fair that's why I assumed his 4000+ could be as much as 8000 years.
So Truthabounds I'm sure you can explain how this was achieved.
Please tell me if I have misquoted you.
.
I admire Truthabounds he is willing to defend his beliefs and is prepared to give full detailed explanations which is more that can be said for the other theists we hear from.
His recent post on evolution is an example :
#Now, Noah was no shipbuilder. And remember, this was more than 4,000 years ago! #
He said all these events took place more than 4000 years ago so I assume its within a few 1000 years. So maybe its as much as 8,000.
However he said that today there are over one milliion species in the world which could have evolved from the 16,000 on the Ark. However I would like to know how that was possible in such a short period of time because this 16,000 was only 8000 species , only one male and one female for each species and bearing in mind there is almost no cross fertilisation between the species , each species would start with two
,therefore each pair's descendants would have to produce 125 mutations to achieve the million species we have today.
Now the interesting thing is that Noah's family of about 8 people didn't produce different species, as far as we know, but they did produce all the Chinese ,the Africans, Indians , Asians , Europeans, Eskimos etc. What is more they achieved this feat almost immediately because we know that all these races were around also 4000+ years ago.
I do want to be fair that's why I assumed his 4000+ could be as much as 8000 years.
So Truthabounds I'm sure you can explain how this was achieved.
Please tell me if I have misquoted you.
.
I`m with you Ratter.
Mount Ararat is just over 17,000 feet tall and snow covered. There isn`t enough water on the planet to cover the world as mentioned in the bible to that depth.I suspect what realy happend is that the story of the flood was even older than the written version in the bible.I think that the story we know was brought out of captivity by the Jewish people when they returned home.
The story is many thousands of years old and is a folk memory of a great event.But the event was not caused by any god but by the melting of the ice caps.As the earth warmed up during the last glacial period it released vast amounts of water and it had to go some where. It melted off the mountains which must have been covered in miles thick ice,it melted and spread accross the vast Mesopotamian plain where the story seems to have come from.
keenonhist
Mount Ararat is just over 17,000 feet tall and snow covered. There isn`t enough water on the planet to cover the world as mentioned in the bible to that depth.I suspect what realy happend is that the story of the flood was even older than the written version in the bible.I think that the story we know was brought out of captivity by the Jewish people when they returned home.
The story is many thousands of years old and is a folk memory of a great event.But the event was not caused by any god but by the melting of the ice caps.As the earth warmed up during the last glacial period it released vast amounts of water and it had to go some where. It melted off the mountains which must have been covered in miles thick ice,it melted and spread accross the vast Mesopotamian plain where the story seems to have come from.
keenonhist
naomi24
Eddie, well it was raining really hard. ;o)
22:53 Sat 29th Dec 2012
An inch every 10 seconds, continuously, for forty days and forty nights, everywhere, across the Earth, not taking into account that which poured over the edge . . . well all that water had to go somewhere.
http://
Eddie, well it was raining really hard. ;o)
22:53 Sat 29th Dec 2012
An inch every 10 seconds, continuously, for forty days and forty nights, everywhere, across the Earth, not taking into account that which poured over the edge . . . well all that water had to go somewhere.
http://
-- answer removed --
Chakka, //modeller, naomi, EDDIE51 and others, why are you wasting your time? ……Still, I suppose that you're just being kind in this season of goodwill.//
We’re all heart! :o)
( Must admit, some of this stuff is so nonsensical, I increasingly find myself giving one line answers these days).
Mibs, //not taking into account that which poured over the edge . . . well all that water had to go somewhere.//
Ha ha! Well that’s one little mystery cleared up then. ;o)
We’re all heart! :o)
( Must admit, some of this stuff is so nonsensical, I increasingly find myself giving one line answers these days).
Mibs, //not taking into account that which poured over the edge . . . well all that water had to go somewhere.//
Ha ha! Well that’s one little mystery cleared up then. ;o)
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