The Point Of Everlasting Life

[beso]

The Believers frequently propose that mortal life has no point without the everlasting life that follows for the faithful.

Yet that promise is to a place where there seems nothing to do but worship God for an eternity. How does this offer them more of a "point"?

Some tell us that we won't need our bodies in this new paradise. So no eating, drinking, singing, sex or other physical exercise. We won't talk because we will already know each other's thoughts. So no card games, crosswords or jokes.

And you get an eternity of this as "reward" for giving up the focus of one's whole natural life when you could actually do something?!

Have I missed something?

[naomi24]

Ed, //Naomi, do you think that features in the modern Christian version of Paradise prominently? Servitude to god that is //

I don't think it features heavily at all in the 'comfortable' 'Gentle Jesus meek and mild' versions of Christianity, but it certainly features heavily in some of the Born Again doom, gloom and 'everyone's a sinner and must pay the price' versions of Christianity - which oddly enough are often erroneously referred to as 'Happy Clappy'. Clappy they might be, but happy they ain't! ;o)

[woofgang]

As a side issue, I kind of wonder why the ......errm "robustly committed atheists"
so often start threads in R and S....I mean given their "robust committment",it strikes me that continually arguing with us happy believers as being quite stressful for them, like chewing on a sore tooth.

Joyce Grenfell proposed in one of her poems, that the things that we love and value about the world here are shadows of those same things in heaven. I am trying to find the poem. She suggests that spring on earth is a pale shadow of the real spring that we will experience in heaven.

[IggyB]

Ed, interesting that you won't accept general impressions based on experience as the basis for credible discussion about the afterlife. If we are all required to provide documented evidence for all our opinions and impressions then we will end up with a very stilted conversation.

[starone]

I read somewhere (don't ask me where, I can't remember) that some scientist or other had postulated the theory that there were the same number of atoms in the universe now as when it started, although differently distributed. So that means we just go back into the universe as some of the atoms. Or alternatively we go back into the earth to provide the fertiliser for the next lot to live on. One way or another we won't know much about it. Sorry, "in my opinion"

[naomi24]

Woofgang. Stop stirring. We're having a nice, civilised conversation here.

Starbuck, //Or alternatively we go back into the earth to provide the fertiliser for the next lot to live on.//

Suits me - as long as you keep me well watered - red wine being the preferred choice. ;o)

[AB Editor]

"Ed, interesting that you won't accept general impressions based on experience as the basis for credible discussion about the afterlife. If we are all required to provide documented evidence for all our opinions and impressions then we will end up with a very stilted conversation."

But Beso is saying "here are my assumptions, let me extrapolate on them"

I am just saying "I don't recognise your assumptions, could you please explain how you came to them?"

If you're unable to provide evidence, then maybe your assumptions are based on something other than evidence and proofs.

Isn't that a fair and rational position to take? Or should I bend to beso's authority? Maybe he needs a white collar and to be offered more tea as well :)

[AB Editor]

I'm of the same opinion Starbuckone, I can't remember who that was but I remember enjoying the speech very much.

I like this one too:

[AB Editor]

I thought "Happy Clappy" was Hari Krishna stuff Naomi?

Anyway:

"I don't think it features heavily at all in the 'comfortable' 'Gentle Jesus meek and mild' versions of Christianity..."

I think this is the point I was making, so is Beso worried about some nutters opinion (and thinks it's worth taking their opinion seriously enough to discuss it) OR the vast majority of Christians who kind of "get on with it" in that milky tepid tea kind of way (which I think we agree, some of his statements don't apply to)?

[Zacs-Master]

Kansas:
I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see

Dust in the wind, All we are is dust in the wind

Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, all your money won't another minute buy

Dust in the wind, All we are is dust in the wind

[starone]

Thanks ed. He certainly puts things into perspective and simply too, so that even a person like me can understand the nuances. Think I might buy one of his books to see what else he says.

[naomi24]

Ed, There are probably more of those 'nutters' around than you realise - but having said that we do discuss all sorts here. Onwards and upwards! ;o)

Great video, by the way. I'm just in the process of looking for one someone posted a while ago that I think will compliment that nicely.

[naomi24]

Ed, //I thought "Happy Clappy" was Hari Krishna stuff Naomi? //

Sorry, missed that bit. These days it often refers to the more fundamentalist Born Again sects of Christianity which seem to have sprung up in recent years.

[AB Editor]

As we're doing this stuff (which I love by the way), here's the pictures aboard voyager:

http://imgur.com/a/CvEvO

It is our best attempt to explain humanity to another unknown being. Just scroll through in order and it feels a bit like reading an entire history of everything as a single narrative.

[naomi24]

Found it.

Courtesy of Vulcan42 - hope he doesn't mind me pinching it. I think it says it all.

[AB Editor]

Someone once posted a kind of scrolling game where you could scroll our from the point of an ant to the end of the known universe, I think TriggerHippy posted it last year? Anyway, if anyone spots it pop it here :)

[starone]

Don't know about E.T.s ed but I enjoyed looking at those pictures. I suppose somewhere among them is a 'Rosetta Stone' type of thing which would enable them to understand us. The first maths type picture I think, would show someone very intelligent how we counted. Great stuff!

[woofgang]

naomi, seriously...I do wonder why the RCA's seem driven to post.

[starone]

Naomi - we are so tiny!! Amazing. Carl Sagan was right when he likened us to a speck of dust.

[Zacs-Master]

And the known universe was a lot smaller when sagan wrote it. Because we interact with people so frequently, I think we become convinced we are larger / more important than we are. You only have to go a few miles up in an aircraft and we are invisible.

[naomi24]

Starbuck, yes, miniscule! I often think that mathematics is the only truly universal language, and that if we are ever to communicate with another reasonably technologically advanced civilisation, it is the only one that will be understood by all.