Can A Non Believer Have An Immortal Soul.

[modeller]

I was speaking to a friend recently who said in a passing comment he didn't believe in "Gods and all that heaven bunkham but did believe in the immortal soul " His words not mine.

The comment came about because his neighbour had had an elaborate funeral despite living on benefits.

I don't get it ! Even if he's right , what's the point. ? Going nowhere, doing nothing , for eternity.


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[coccinelle]

In answer to your question and sorry I've just seen it; what happens to this force after death? That energy remains in the world.

[murraymints]

Bit too early to think of this..but as a Christian and Catholic I have been taught..and hope...there is something there..

[goodlife]

You poor souls let the Bible help you.

The word “soul” as used in the Bible refers to a person or an animal or to the life that a person or an animal have. The Bible’s definition of the soul is simple, consistent, and unencumbered by the complicated of atheist or Darwin's theory or philosophies and superstitions of men. ( Genesis 1:20 ) so you may be surprised to find nothing about his giving man an immortal soul, when your dead your dead simple.

[coccinelle]

That's if you believe in the Bible and what the WT has made you believe, goodlife.

[emmie]

non believer in what way, if you are an atheist one assumes you have no belief in God, the hereafter or any of that so called mumbo jumbo.
Immortal soul, no idea, i just believe that dead is dead, and no shining light at the end of a long tunnel, no coming back in other words.

[modeller]

goodlife # so you may be surprised to find nothing about his giving man an immortal soul, when your dead your dead simple#
Are you saying there is no hereafter ? No supernatural heaven or hell !
Or have I misunderstood what you are saying.
What's Genesis 1: 20 got to do with it. ?

[LazyGun]

JWs do not believe in an immortal soul.

They believe that the word "soul" just refers to the mortal life, so when you are dead, you are dead. However, they do believe in resurrection - that an individual will be given a second life, or soul, that is exactly the same as their original one.

So, for all practical purposes, an immortal soul, it seems to me... the argument just smacks of sophistry.

I cannot see any rational or scientific basis for a soul, which for most people appears to be a kind of disembodied energy field that contains all the memories and emotions and thoughts of the individual from which it was derived. Seems very implausible to me :)

[modeller]

em. I don't like to get down to the exact dictionary meaning of a word but
I think the word Atheist and Non believer can vary. I would say they both mean a disbelief in a God but that doesn't necessarily preclude a belief in other things such as a soul, inner force, second sight, or just a feeling there is something else, etc. Some would claim they are only here whilst we are alive but others like that friend of mine thinks the soul exists now and for ever. I was surprised as I assumed , wrongly , from he had said previously that he didn't believe in anything remotely supernatural.

[chrisgel]

Modeller - I think that your friend is being a little ingenuous in saying he doesn't believe in anything supernatural.
Definition :- Of or relating to existence outside the natural world
If that's not the definition of a "soul" then what is?

[modeller]

LZ I agree, resurrection, if true would be a perfect example of the immortal soul.
It would also answer my query of . Going nowhwere , doing nothing etc.

Maybe you could answer my question to goodlife . Do JWs believe in heaven and hell. If they do then there must be an immortal soul within whatever entity they are in.

[chrisgel]

^^^ sorry "disingenuous"

[modeller]

christgel Yes I think you are right .

[LazyGun]

@Modeller - JWs do not believe in the concept of Hell,certainly not the everlasting realm of torment and torture where immortal souls reside for an eternity.

They believe in heaven, a realm where angels reside, and come resurrection the favoured few - JWs,will be resurrected to live for ever? - Puzzling enough, but last time I bothered to look at stuff to do with JWs, I had understood it to say that only 144,000 souls would be resurrected, which is pretty bad news for all the estimated other 7 million or so - there are allegedly around 7.5 million JWs around the glove....

[birdie1971]

↑ Around which glove?

...

Sorry, couldn’t help it ;-)

[LazyGun]

LoL - oops spelling error - should have read globe, not glove :)

[naomi24]

Chrisgel, I don't think Modeller's friend is being disingenuous. Why does the soul have to be 'supernatural'? We might not understand it, but that doesn't mean it's 'supernatural' - it just means we don't currently understand it. I agree with him. I don't believe anything is supernatural, but since energy cannot be destroyed, that generated by a living body throughout life must still exist after death. Perhaps that is what people refer to as the 'soul'.

LG, I think you'll find that there are 144,000 places reserved in heaven for the anointed ones - most of whom I believe are thought to have been resurrected and are there already. The rest of the JWs will be resurrected eventually and will live forever on an earth which, without worldly wickedness, other religions, and those damned atheists, will become an absolute paradise. ;o)

[LazyGun]

ahh thanks for the clarification Naomi - I knew something was at fault with my understanding - could not see why JWs would ever need more than 144,000 otherwise :)

[goodlife]

modeller @ The Bible says that when a person dies, “his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground.” (Psalm 146:4)

Much of this misunderstanding about death to the meaning of “soul” and “spirit.” has been due to the confusion with false teaching, which atheist like.

But Bible shows they are not the same.
spirit is the life-force, it “returns to the true God” in the sense that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God.

Only God can restore the spirit, or life-force, causing a person to come back to life. (Psalm 104:30) But only if God purpose to do so.
But do you know why God has arranged for some people to go to heaven? Do you know what they will do there?

If you ask a atheist you get more false teaching ,because Jesus warned against a ‘wicked eye’.

[coccinelle]

goodlife: according to your religion, the 144,000 are going to heaven to govern over the earth (I'm not quite sure what they've been doing upto now nor what they'll do until armaghedon) but why so many when all the people on earth are going to be goody goodies so quite capable of living very quiet, God adoring lives?

[LazyGun]

@coccinelle -Exactly. Come on, goodlife, 'fess up. Who are the 144,000, are they already reanimated, and what happens to your other allegedly 7 million or so followers? I mean, if you cannot be one of the 144,000, I guess that might feel pretty aggrieved....

As for teachings about god and the afterlife and an immortal soul and hell and all that jazz - you keep banging on about atheists having a "wicked eye" ( I have a lazy eye, and an eye for the ladies - is that the same thing as a wicked eye? ) But actually, it is not atheists who teach a different viewpoint, or atheists who question your particular interpretation of the bible - it is your fellow god-botherers, those of the faithful who view you lot as a minority and misguided cult.

Go blame christians for their teachings if you have a problem with their version of heaven and hell and the soul and all that - not atheists - we tend to be equally baffled by the doctrines and numberous petty point scoring that all you religious types tend to indulge in with each other.