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Can A Non Believer Have An Immortal Soul.
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I was speaking to a friend recently who said in a passing comment he didn't believe in "Gods and all that heaven bunkham but did believe in the immortal soul " His words not mine.
The comment came about because his neighbour had had an elaborate funeral despite living on benefits.
I don't get it ! Even if he's right , what's the point. ? Going nowhere, doing nothing , for eternity.
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The comment came about because his neighbour had had an elaborate funeral despite living on benefits.
I don't get it ! Even if he's right , what's the point. ? Going nowhere, doing nothing , for eternity.
.
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LG, I thought the closing date for applications was 1935, and I understood that most of the 144,000 had already taken their places in heaven. However, upon googling to check I had the correct date I discovered that in good old JW tradition, goalposts have once again been moved.
http://
Under the heading “When was the calling closed?” we find //In 2007 this teaching was once again changed, with the admission that the Bible does not give a date for when the closing would occur.//
VE talking about the house that was maintained in anticipation of the patriarchs return jogged another memory. I’d almost forgotten that – but it makes an interesting story …….
http://
Incidentally, according to that //the belief that the "princes" would be resurrected before Armageddon was abandoned in 1950.//
Yet another U-turn. How anyone can go along with any of this beats me – it really does! I’m not surprised Goodlife is reluctant to attempt to give a definitive answer when answers change with such alarming regularity!
http://
Under the heading “When was the calling closed?” we find //In 2007 this teaching was once again changed, with the admission that the Bible does not give a date for when the closing would occur.//
VE talking about the house that was maintained in anticipation of the patriarchs return jogged another memory. I’d almost forgotten that – but it makes an interesting story …….
http://
Incidentally, according to that //the belief that the "princes" would be resurrected before Armageddon was abandoned in 1950.//
Yet another U-turn. How anyone can go along with any of this beats me – it really does! I’m not surprised Goodlife is reluctant to attempt to give a definitive answer when answers change with such alarming regularity!
@Naomi
Thanks for the info,and the link to that informative site. Wonderful how often Watchtower like to claim some prophecy or other bible reference as literal, but dismiss others as figurative :) Talk about having your cake and eating it.
I had not appreciated that in JW doctrine, heaven was a class-based society, with royalty and all.
The stuff about Beth Sarim is fascinating too. How- how? can people be so deluded??!! And 10 bedrooms and just a 2 car garage? What were they thinking? :)
Like you, I am mystified. Not just JW, but all these other evangelical and charismatic religions - how many failed prophecies, how many u-turns before the believers start thinking rationally?
Thanks for the info,and the link to that informative site. Wonderful how often Watchtower like to claim some prophecy or other bible reference as literal, but dismiss others as figurative :) Talk about having your cake and eating it.
I had not appreciated that in JW doctrine, heaven was a class-based society, with royalty and all.
The stuff about Beth Sarim is fascinating too. How- how? can people be so deluded??!! And 10 bedrooms and just a 2 car garage? What were they thinking? :)
Like you, I am mystified. Not just JW, but all these other evangelical and charismatic religions - how many failed prophecies, how many u-turns before the believers start thinking rationally?
@goodlife Seriously? You post this
"The blind only see what they want to "see". If you will look at false sites you will get false facts. He that really "seeks" the truth will find it, but because you only want to listen to lies, lies is what you find!"
And fail to see the irony of you, an evangelising faithhead, unquestioningly regurgitating great gollops of watchtower screed in this forum, chiding us sceptics for questioning the logical and scientific nonsense that you spew out?
Really?
None so blind as those that will not see indeed! That phrase was created with you in mind goodlife.
I note that it is not you but sceptics who answered my questions about the 144,000. Interesting that you chose to offer no response in defending that particular piece of nonsense - or about the nonsense of the palace reserved for prophets.
"The blind only see what they want to "see". If you will look at false sites you will get false facts. He that really "seeks" the truth will find it, but because you only want to listen to lies, lies is what you find!"
And fail to see the irony of you, an evangelising faithhead, unquestioningly regurgitating great gollops of watchtower screed in this forum, chiding us sceptics for questioning the logical and scientific nonsense that you spew out?
Really?
None so blind as those that will not see indeed! That phrase was created with you in mind goodlife.
I note that it is not you but sceptics who answered my questions about the 144,000. Interesting that you chose to offer no response in defending that particular piece of nonsense - or about the nonsense of the palace reserved for prophets.
LG, //how many u-turns before the believers start thinking rationally? //
... or even suspect that something isn't quite right? Incredible!
Goodlife, if those websites are giving false information, why don't you tell us which bits aren't true? You never discuss anything, you never explain anything - all you ever do is proclaim doom. Do you actually have anything of substance to say?
Evedawn, //some will go to heaven and some to hell. //
What a sad way to think.
... or even suspect that something isn't quite right? Incredible!
Goodlife, if those websites are giving false information, why don't you tell us which bits aren't true? You never discuss anything, you never explain anything - all you ever do is proclaim doom. Do you actually have anything of substance to say?
Evedawn, //some will go to heaven and some to hell. //
What a sad way to think.
In my opinion the only way to achieve everlasting life is to have children so that you pass on your genes to another poor unsuspecting little sod who has to cope with the same things as you have and more. Your own body dies and goes back into the earth to fertilise it for the next lot which will eventually arise. Soul? - I don't think so, but I might be proved wrong, who knows!
I inexplicably missed that bit from eve about heaven and hell. Not much evidence for those places either. Not much scientific plausibility for them.
And not all religions agree that such places exist. In fact some religions differ within themselves as to whether such places exist, especially hell.
Again, suffers from a lack of any evidence at all, in my opinion :)
And not all religions agree that such places exist. In fact some religions differ within themselves as to whether such places exist, especially hell.
Again, suffers from a lack of any evidence at all, in my opinion :)
I don’t understand how presumably ‘good’ people can accept without protest that some will spend eternity in hell (or condemned to death, as Goodlife believes) solely from the 'crime' of logically disbelieving that for which there is no evidence. How does that make them ‘good’ people? Seems pretty nasty and self-centred to me.
This God can not lies numbers 23--19
Psalms - Chapter 16
1 [In a quiet voice Of David] Protect me, O God, in you is my refuge.
2 To Yahweh I say, 'You are my Lord, my happiness is in none
3 of the sacred spirits of the earth.' They only take advantage of all who love them.
4 People flock to their -Teeming idols.
Never shall I pour libations to them! Never take their names on my lips.
5 My birthright, my cup is Yahweh; you, you alone, hold my lot secure.
6 The measuring-line marks out for me a delightful place, my birthright is all I could wish.
7 I bless Yahweh who is my counsellor, even at night my heart instructs me.
8 I keep Yahweh before me always, for with him at my right hand, nothing can shake me.
9 So my heart rejoices, my soul delights, my body too will rest secure,
10 for you will not abandon me to Sheol,
you cannot allow your faithful servant to see the abyss.
( grave pit death decease Sheol)
11 You will teach me the path of life, unbounded joy in your presence, at your right hand delight for ever.
<
Psalms - Chapter 16
1 [In a quiet voice Of David] Protect me, O God, in you is my refuge.
2 To Yahweh I say, 'You are my Lord, my happiness is in none
3 of the sacred spirits of the earth.' They only take advantage of all who love them.
4 People flock to their -Teeming idols.
Never shall I pour libations to them! Never take their names on my lips.
5 My birthright, my cup is Yahweh; you, you alone, hold my lot secure.
6 The measuring-line marks out for me a delightful place, my birthright is all I could wish.
7 I bless Yahweh who is my counsellor, even at night my heart instructs me.
8 I keep Yahweh before me always, for with him at my right hand, nothing can shake me.
9 So my heart rejoices, my soul delights, my body too will rest secure,
10 for you will not abandon me to Sheol,
you cannot allow your faithful servant to see the abyss.
( grave pit death decease Sheol)
11 You will teach me the path of life, unbounded joy in your presence, at your right hand delight for ever.
<
@locusts. God cannot lie? You have no proof of that, just like you have no proof of god - tingly feelings in your insides, or voices in your head, or fuzzy warm feelings are not proof of anything at all.
And we all know very well that man can lie and often does lie, for all sorts of reasons - and it is man who has written the bible and all the other sacred texts. There is little or no contemporaneous evidence for any of the major events mentioned in the bible.
So, on balance, the reasonable thing to do would be to enjoy some of the stories, appreciate the language, and move on.
And we all know very well that man can lie and often does lie, for all sorts of reasons - and it is man who has written the bible and all the other sacred texts. There is little or no contemporaneous evidence for any of the major events mentioned in the bible.
So, on balance, the reasonable thing to do would be to enjoy some of the stories, appreciate the language, and move on.
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