Why Do They Question The Existence Of God?

[goodlife]

One leading cause of atheism is religion.
Or they may proclaim, ‘I only believe what I see, and I can’t see any invisible Creator.

[Khandro]

What was there before the big bang then jake? - it will have to be a guess I know, but even that will suffice.

[steg]

also some believe in an infinite universe (i think evidence may be showing this as well), so it may always of been here

[jake-the-peg]

Before you sound off too much to Steg Jim you should bear in mind that critics of the classic Big Bang theory now include clueless sceptics like Sir Roger Penrose!

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2010/nov/19/penrose-claims-to-have-glimpsed-universe-before-big-bang

[LazyGun]

What was before the Big Bang? No idea. So?

[naomi24]

steg, I beg your pardon. I'll rephrase that. Do you think an unknown supernatural entity (commonly referred to, by those who believe such a creature exists, as 'God') created the universe, and if so, why do you believe that?

[naomi24]

Khandro, //What was there before the big bang then//

Come on, do tell.

[steg]

"I do try and be respectful in times like this steg b.... "

i don't believe you

"It would be if it weren't so tragic."

[jake-the-peg]

That Khandro is the key point

You're aware of General relativity - as gravity gets higher and higher time slows down? Its needed for Sat Navs to work etc.

If you calculate the expansion of the Universe by todays clocks you come back to a point in time - the big bang.

But imagine that you're actually *in* the Universe and we wind the clock back.

Now as the Universe shrinks time starts to slow - you can't get quite to zero - from 'within' the Universe by your clock it's eternal

You could say the Universe started x billion years ago or it's been here forever depending on how you look at it

It's all about Time - it's not the way you and I experience it on a day to day basis.

If you ask any physicist what they'd most like to properly und

[jake-the-peg]

(scuse me)

What they'd most like to understand I'll lay you money they'd say the nature of time

[steg]

naomi
i believe the universe is infinite and probably has always been here

[jim360]

@jtp doesn't change the argument too much, because there still was a bang. If things happened before it, etc., I'll wait to see. Furthermore that theory looks to be on dodgy ground as Penrose describes it. Again, wait and see. But either way Penrose's ideas include a big bang, even if it wasn't the first.

[jim360]

Then I've failed several times in this thread, steg. An infinite universe theory was discredited ca long time ago and, irony of ironies, doesn't fit the evidence at all.

[naomi24]

steg, thank you. So since you think the universe has existed forever I have to assume that you don't think an unknown supernatural entity commonly known as God created it.

[jake-the-peg]

Kind of jim - as I say it depends on what you mean by the big bang

Let's not deny there are issues with the detail here - I don't think anybody would say they 'like' inflation for example - even Alan Guth.

As I say you have to be really careful when bandying about terms like 'here forever' and even the Universe 'started' - the very nature of natural language has concepts of time built into it and they're very slippery in these things.

Steg says the Universe has always been here

I suspect you and I would agree there was no time 'before the big bang'


Are these actually incompatible?

If there was no time before the big bang, and if always means for all time - then these mean the same thing don't they?

[jim360]

True the theory is incomplete with tidying up to do. Its basic premise is on pretty sure footing, and I don't see that it makes too much difference if our present universe was just the latest in the cycle. I don't do enough cosmology to really comment further.

Interesting point about the time. I tend to think that time begins with the big bang, so maybe the universe really has been here "forever" if there was no before. Nice thought!

[steg]

naomi
correct

[modeller]

goodlife Why don't you fight for your beliefs ? Is your god not worth fighting for ?
What do I mean ? I mean you never try to disprove what non belivers say ?

You may copy /paste chunks of the bible /watch tower which is only repeating the words of other believers , which does nothing to disprove what a non believer has said.

If I or any non believer says something about your god that you believe is wrong . Then challenge us , prove us wrong , prove our arguments are wrong. Y

[modeller]

cont. You don't need to prove your belief , just prove we are wrong .

Of course if your god is not worth fighing for , I can understand that but if I had your belief I would fight for it . I would not quote other people from any source , that shows a weakness. I would use my OWN words to prove those atheists wrong. Look at those atheist posts . Answer them . Prove them wrong . Try it !

[vulcan42]

Just to help goodlife in his quest, here's a list of regional Newspapers with a circulation of more than 42,000. Unfortunately I couldn't supply a pin.
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation

[naomi24]

I really don't know why we're asking him which newspaper it is. I doubt he knows.