This Is One For The Christians Only...

[MrsLulu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9jqI4svrNY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[chrisgel]

Magiebee - // You may not agree with what goodlife says but he has every right to say it// It's not that I don't agree it's that I don't understand what he posted and what relevance it had to this thread. I never do to be honest. Goodlife posts random bits of the bible onto virtually every thread on R&S.
Having said that you are quite correct. He has every right to post anything he wants and I was very rude.
Goodlife please accept my apologies.

[naomi24]

Ann, // I see no difference in this from the children taking part in Britain's Got Talent,//

Really? Well, look again because actually there’s a vast difference. This child is not in competition – and he’s certainly not going to get ‘buzzed’ off – he’s far too valuable! Tugs at your heartstrings, doesn’t it. Yes, indeed. Job done!

[naomi24]

Maggie, Goodlife has every right to post comments relating to the subject matter. He does not, however, have every right to use this forum to preach scripture that has no real relevance to the thread in question – which is what he does consistently and which is what he has done here. On this occasion, Chrisgel was absolutely right to challenge him – and wrong to capitulate to criticism from you.

[jomifl]

Why did god afflict this poor lad with his disabilities, perhaps it's something to do with the sins of the fathers or free will. Perhaps an informed christian who has actually read the bible will explain it all...but then, I'm just a natural optimist.

[mibn2cweus]

//free will// . . . I was wonderin' when someone would get around to draggin' out that old chestnut?

[jomifl]

Mibs.. If you want to stand in for an absent christian and attempt to answer the question I will appreciate your efforts.

[mibn2cweus]

Sorry jomifl, Being a bit of an optimist myself, I'm still waiting for someone to offer an explanation for why the hell He doesn't answer His own questions? While the sins of The father looms as a tempting candidate, 'free will' presupposes the capacity of reason and the choice to use it, both of which seem glaringly absent in those who alternatively choose to believe that He exists.

[jomifl]

Mibs, I think the concept of 'free will' was dreamt up as a cop out for god so that all those little oversights of the omniscient deity could be blamed on his puny creation. Why would it be any different?

[naomi24]

Jom, according to some Christians – and to some Muslims - the boy’s sad medical condition is a test, not only for him, but for the people around him – but why the hell a God that allegedly knows the secrets of all hearts, and has planned everything from day one needs to test anyone remains a mystery.

[jim360]

The trouble sometimes in arguing with theists is that they always have these get-out arguments that cannot be challenged, not because they're right exactly but because they're just... vague. "It's all part of God's plan", "That's just free will", or the killer "I don't know - but God does". How do you even argue against that? Other than by pointing out the obvious -- that these aren't arguments. Oh well.

The "Pain is all part of God's plan as a test" one has always bugged me. Why set up tests when He knows the result? Or, more accurately, why set up tests where the consequences of failure are so grim? Adam and Eve, apparently, failed the test of eating of the fruit they weren't supposed to -- and so we were cast out of Paradise. Well brilliant. Why not just not put the tree there in the first place, God?

Etc., etc.

[naomi24]

//That's just free will//

I'm willing to bet free will has nothing to do with his condition.

The bible contains accounts of some appallingly cruel tests inflicted or authorised by this God, most notably those imposed upon Abraham and Job. Absolutely horrendous! How anyone can like this God - let alone love him - is quite beyond me. What a monster!

[chrisgel]

God may well have given us free will but it didn't stop him interfering with that free will when it suited him.
Exodus 4:21 - I will harden Pharoahs heart etc.
and he wasn't above interfering in order to gain himself some glory
Exodus 14:4 - And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.
Strange that free will can be suspended by god in order to self-publicise but he can watch all the horrors of the world happen and not lift a finger because he has given us free will.
Sounds like a bit of a **** to me.

[modeller]

There is no such thing as Free Will, as if it is something separate from us ,over which we can exercise as we choose. If I am strong willed or weak willed that is the will God is supposed to have given me . Saint or sinner
God made both or neither.

[jomifl]

I have just realised what the answer is to all those conundrums that perplex believers and also atheists when trying to engage them in rational discussion of the contradictions of religious dogma.... but you've already guessed...