The Theists Will Love This Lol !! :-)

[RATTER15]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/02/11/quantum-equation-suggests-the-big-bang-never-occurred-the-universe-has-no-beginning/

[grasscarp]

Er yes they do
http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/08/17/scientists-prove-again-that-life-is-the-result-of-intelligent-design/

[joggerjayne]

I think goodlife is putting forward an argument called the teleological argument ... is that right? ... proposed by philospphers like William Paley.

[vulcan42]

Well, I'm convinced,the fact that a house can't build itself proves there is a god.

[grasscarp]

And at the end of the article I put a link to they mention a book I hadn't heard of but sounds interesting
http://www.amazon.com/Nonsense-High-Order-Confused-Illusory/dp/1456445944
(About atheists)

[jim360]

That does not prove what you think it proves, grasscarp.

[grasscarp]

Famous scientists who believe(d) in God
http://www.famousscientists.org/25-famous-scientists-who-believed-in-god/

[jim360]

That's also not a point worth making.

[joggerjayne]

Famous church leaders who DON'T believe in god.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/18/archbishop-canterbury-doubt-god-existence-welby

Or maybe he does.

He's not too sure.

For the sake of keeping his job, it's probably better to go with the "I probably do, even though I'm not too sure" line of argument.

[Bazile]

So , where do you stand ?

The universe as we know it was formed from nothing , because in the beginning there was nothing - and then there was the big bang... ?

The universe as we know it was created by a god , because in the beginning there was nothing and then god created the universe ?

Perhaps the universe as we know it is not everything ?

[goodlife]

Interestingly, The apostle Paul wrote: “Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God.” (Hebrews 3:4)

Some investigate the cell—to investigate life at the molecular level—is a loud, clear, cry of ‘design!

Try it when you look at a building, but if someone told you that he had builder, yes he a atheist

[goodlife]

Sorry meant to say - no builder

[Old_Geezer]

It is well known that, that argument fails unless you can show how a God that does not yet exist can create themselves. If you can believe things can create themselves then why is that more likely than things coming from nothings without the intervention of a God ? And if one tries to get around that by saying God always existed, then why not the universe always existing instead ?

None of this disproves the existence of a God, but neither does the argument given prove one either. The argument is a false one claiming that something is needed when such proof has not been provided.

There is no loud clear cry of "design" in a molecule. Why do you think there is ? It is your own incredulity that such a thing could develop naturally that causes you to believe that which is not clearly so.

[grasscarp]

But for something to develop naturally means that there is a design and a pattern.
All of life has these patterns, innate understanding of what to do from a molecule to a human being.
None of it is likely to be random spontaneous occurrences. To me it sceams creation, and a creator. I feel sorry for those who think they are random blobs, not purposely created, responsible to noone and all they have to look forward
to is oblivion!

[Old_Geezer]

Justify this belief that for something to develop naturally means that there is a design and a pattern. It is an assumption.

[birdie1971]

grasscarp - "... But for something to develop naturally means that there is a design and a pattern..."

Like cancer perhaps? That's natural. Mutations are a random natural process. So by your reckoning, God created made cancer. Nice.


g - "... I feel sorry for those who think they are random blobs, not purposely created, responsible to noone and all they have to look forward to is oblivion!..."

Believe me, your feelings of sympathy are reciprocated manyfold. I feel sorry for people so deluded by their own self importance that they convince themselves they are going to live forever in a magical paradise after they're dead.

As for atheists "... being responsible to noone...", what do you mean? I feel that because I know I'm never going to get an afterlife, I have a responsibility here and now to be a good person and a good citizen. Consequently I work for a living, pay my taxes, do not commit crime, do not harass or otherwise annoy my neighbours, etc. Quite why religious people think that atheists are amoral or immoral is a mystery to me when we have (I believe) an even greater moral obligation than theists to be good and decent people since this is the one and only chance we get at life.

[Hypognosis]

What about the malaria parasite, birdie? That was a design classic. Not one host but two!


I'm off to the genetics lab to 'design' a multicoloured frog with neurotoxic skin secretions, strong enough to kill a small herd of mammals. Will G-d sue me for copyright infringement?

[goodlife]

Really, is that all you can find to life? Look where you will in the world, the system seems very badly.

It has its energy crises and runaway inflation, food shortages and pollution of the environment, revolutions, cold and hot wars, stockpiling of nuclear weapons, racial problems and surging discontent among the masses of mankind. No part of the earth is free from problems that pose a threat to human life for survival!

Yes,Some hardened critics of the Bible have had to concede that God is the Source of life. Even evolutionist

[vulcan42]

// It has its energy crises and runaway inflation, food shortages and pollution of the environment, revolutions, cold and hot wars, stockpiling of nuclear weapons, racial problems and surging discontent among the masses of mankind. No part of the earth is free from problems that pose a threat to human life for survival! \\
This just shows how ineffectual religion has been in preventing these problems.

[jim360]

"Random spontaneous occurrences" are poorly understood by most. But they can in fact be entirely responsible and still generate a pattern, because, while the genetic mutations are purely random, the processes that drive which mutations are "useful" are anything but. This observation holds true in almost everything scientists have studied. From the physics of tiny particles, to the physics of large systems, random probability driven by non-random laws can create wonderful complexity all by itself. While this is absolutely not a proof of the non-existence of a Creator, it does at least demonstrate that such a creator isn't, after all, definitely necessary.

[goodlife]

No it is call independence from God, and is not new. It is almost as old as man.
The foregoing facts should help you appreciate a basic truth: In order to have a successful and delightful way of life.

Man must depend on God for guidance. That is one reason why the Bible says: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jeremiah 10:23)

That ancient wise man Solomon recognized the danger of setting up personal standards for life independent of divine guidance. He wrote: “There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward.”—Proverbs 14:12..