ChatterBank6 mins ago
Give Me Just One
191 Answers
piece of evidence that God exists...just one!
Have just been reading through the posts here on R&S and all I see are (tortuous) apologetics for ones own belief system. We have Theland who pleads with us to find salvation and then disappears. We have goodlife who appears incapable of thinking for himself and just copies and pastes. (typical JW from my experience) and keyplus who views the world through 'koran glasses' and cant even begin to see the world in any other way than that in which he has been brought up in.
All God believers, in my experience, seem to view unbelievers as been willfull sinners. They seem incapable of understanding that others have their own understanding of the world and that God plays no part in it because there is no EVIDENCE.
For the time being, I HAVE to be an honest atheist (or at best agnostic) because I value truth and evidence over faith (and there are so many faiths that I couldnt possibly choose one out of thousands even if I had to.)
SO...... Just one piece of evidence will suffice and then maybe I could take it from there and see if YOUR God might be the way forward.
I thank you.
Have just been reading through the posts here on R&S and all I see are (tortuous) apologetics for ones own belief system. We have Theland who pleads with us to find salvation and then disappears. We have goodlife who appears incapable of thinking for himself and just copies and pastes. (typical JW from my experience) and keyplus who views the world through 'koran glasses' and cant even begin to see the world in any other way than that in which he has been brought up in.
All God believers, in my experience, seem to view unbelievers as been willfull sinners. They seem incapable of understanding that others have their own understanding of the world and that God plays no part in it because there is no EVIDENCE.
For the time being, I HAVE to be an honest atheist (or at best agnostic) because I value truth and evidence over faith (and there are so many faiths that I couldnt possibly choose one out of thousands even if I had to.)
SO...... Just one piece of evidence will suffice and then maybe I could take it from there and see if YOUR God might be the way forward.
I thank you.
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Grasscarp,// If you cant prove it then you have to admit there is a possibility that he does exist.//
Who’s ‘he’? Although I feel it highly unlikely, I’ve never claimed that a creator doesn’t exist. On the other hand you, Keyplus, Goodlife, et al, not only insist that you know that such an entity exists, but quite bizarrely claim to know what it is, how it thinks, what it wants, and that it takes an active interest in you personally.
//In your reasoned and well thought out understanding how did the world come into existence?
Pray tell.//
I don’t know and neither does anyone else, but I do know that it’s quite irrational to positively attribute the unknown to the unknown.
Who’s ‘he’? Although I feel it highly unlikely, I’ve never claimed that a creator doesn’t exist. On the other hand you, Keyplus, Goodlife, et al, not only insist that you know that such an entity exists, but quite bizarrely claim to know what it is, how it thinks, what it wants, and that it takes an active interest in you personally.
//In your reasoned and well thought out understanding how did the world come into existence?
Pray tell.//
I don’t know and neither does anyone else, but I do know that it’s quite irrational to positively attribute the unknown to the unknown.
I've heard many believers in God say that the whole point of "Faith" is just that; there is no evidence, but they have faith that God exists and that is what their religion is based on.
I have no such faith. I am sure there is no god.
I am faintly amused by some athletes, for example, who say God got them through that sprinting race, golf tournament, whatever. Did God not have other things to worry about than making sure they won that competition?
I have no such faith. I am sure there is no god.
I am faintly amused by some athletes, for example, who say God got them through that sprinting race, golf tournament, whatever. Did God not have other things to worry about than making sure they won that competition?
grasscarp //You explain nothing about creation, only what is an interpretation by those left wondering about it all.//
I didn't explain "creation" because there is no "creation" to explain.
The origins of everything we see are thoroughly explained by science from the first moment when the entire Universe existed as a single pixel of pure energy in SpaceTime.
There is no need for conscious control of the minutiae that you would have us believe is the realm of your God. All that is left for your God is the possibility that it created that first pixel of energy.
In doing so you would be replacing the concept of a beginning from single pixel of undifferentiated energy to requiring an explanation for the origins of the god, which is described as what is undoubtedly the most complex thing in the universe.
Science tells us that it started simple and grew in complexity. Religion tells us that it started from a very complex beginning for which there is no explanation whatsoever. What makes more logical sense?
Yet the religious like to talk of the "watch without a watchmaker" in defence of their bizarre proposition for why there must be a god.
I didn't explain "creation" because there is no "creation" to explain.
The origins of everything we see are thoroughly explained by science from the first moment when the entire Universe existed as a single pixel of pure energy in SpaceTime.
There is no need for conscious control of the minutiae that you would have us believe is the realm of your God. All that is left for your God is the possibility that it created that first pixel of energy.
In doing so you would be replacing the concept of a beginning from single pixel of undifferentiated energy to requiring an explanation for the origins of the god, which is described as what is undoubtedly the most complex thing in the universe.
Science tells us that it started simple and grew in complexity. Religion tells us that it started from a very complex beginning for which there is no explanation whatsoever. What makes more logical sense?
Yet the religious like to talk of the "watch without a watchmaker" in defence of their bizarre proposition for why there must be a god.
Naomi24:>".. Although I feel it highly unlikely, I’ve never claimed that a creator doesn’t exist..
I don’t know and neither does anyone else, but I do know that it’s quite irrational to positively attribute the unknown to the unknown. "
I cannot say that I do not disagree with you.
Are you an agnostic Naomi ?
I don’t know and neither does anyone else, but I do know that it’s quite irrational to positively attribute the unknown to the unknown. "
I cannot say that I do not disagree with you.
Are you an agnostic Naomi ?
mibn2cweus
"It took an alleged creator 13 billion plus years to create a being capable of speculating on the existence of such a creator. Given such a vast amount of time required to achieve such a feat . . . why didn't he/she/it just simply let us evolve?
..And why did He/She/It go to all that trouble of making such a huge stew pot that a space telescope is required to obtain a glimpse of a tiny fraction of an expanse that for billions of years no one knew was there? "
That is putting words into other folks mouths.
"It took an alleged creator 13 billion plus years to create a being capable of speculating on the existence of such a creator. Given such a vast amount of time required to achieve such a feat . . . why didn't he/she/it just simply let us evolve?
..And why did He/She/It go to all that trouble of making such a huge stew pot that a space telescope is required to obtain a glimpse of a tiny fraction of an expanse that for billions of years no one knew was there? "
That is putting words into other folks mouths.
With regards to the Gods as described by the various Abrahamic religions, it is rather remarkable that anyone believes anything allegedly so great as to create a universe by simply saying "let it be" can at the same time be so incredibly petty as to condemn for eternity the simple fact of disbelief?
beso:->"I didn't explain "creation" because there is no "creation" to explain.
The origins of everything we see are thoroughly explained by science from the first moment when the entire Universe existed as a single pixel of pure energy in SpaceTime.
...Science tells us that it started simple and grew in complexity. Religion tells us that it started from a very complex beginning for which there is no explanation whatsoever. What makes more logical sense? "
More semantics(creation), assumptions, and reification(science) - people tell us things and those things are not always accurate/true ... people cannot even agree on what is meant by atheist and agnostic never mind what a black hole, the Big Bang or infinity.
The origins of everything we see are thoroughly explained by science from the first moment when the entire Universe existed as a single pixel of pure energy in SpaceTime.
...Science tells us that it started simple and grew in complexity. Religion tells us that it started from a very complex beginning for which there is no explanation whatsoever. What makes more logical sense? "
More semantics(creation), assumptions, and reification(science) - people tell us things and those things are not always accurate/true ... people cannot even agree on what is meant by atheist and agnostic never mind what a black hole, the Big Bang or infinity.
-- answer removed --
Birdie,
The complexity of our planet points to a designer. For example, the size of the earth is perfect with gravity a thin layer of the gases we need, only extending about 50 miles up. We are located at the right distance from the sun. If we were any further from the sun, we would all freeze and any closer we would fry. Water is.colorless, odorless and without taste and yet no living thing can survive without it. And it comes to us out of the sky! Our brain processes over a million messages a second. At the same time tracking bodily functions like breathing, eyelid movement, hunger etc. Eyes can distinguish 7 million colors and have automatic focusing. And what about DNA? A three-billion-lettered program telling the cell how to act. How did this information programme get into each human cell instructing that code in a very detailed way exactly how the body develops? Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find precise instruction like this, without someone intentionally constructing it. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution does not explain the initial source of the eye or the brain - the start of living organisms from non living matter. Much of life may seem uncertain, but we can count on gravity staying the same, a hot water cools down, the earth rotates always in 24 hours, and the speed of light is a constant. How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly and reliable? Scientists have been struck by how strange this is.
There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by mathematical rules. Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery. The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle." To me the whole of creation screams that it was intelligently designed. Birdie, you ask me - how have you concluded that your religion is the "correct" one. Irrelevant. I am addressing Nailit’s request to give one piece of evidence that God exists – and my argument is not silly!
The complexity of our planet points to a designer. For example, the size of the earth is perfect with gravity a thin layer of the gases we need, only extending about 50 miles up. We are located at the right distance from the sun. If we were any further from the sun, we would all freeze and any closer we would fry. Water is.colorless, odorless and without taste and yet no living thing can survive without it. And it comes to us out of the sky! Our brain processes over a million messages a second. At the same time tracking bodily functions like breathing, eyelid movement, hunger etc. Eyes can distinguish 7 million colors and have automatic focusing. And what about DNA? A three-billion-lettered program telling the cell how to act. How did this information programme get into each human cell instructing that code in a very detailed way exactly how the body develops? Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find precise instruction like this, without someone intentionally constructing it. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution does not explain the initial source of the eye or the brain - the start of living organisms from non living matter. Much of life may seem uncertain, but we can count on gravity staying the same, a hot water cools down, the earth rotates always in 24 hours, and the speed of light is a constant. How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly and reliable? Scientists have been struck by how strange this is.
There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by mathematical rules. Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery. The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle." To me the whole of creation screams that it was intelligently designed. Birdie, you ask me - how have you concluded that your religion is the "correct" one. Irrelevant. I am addressing Nailit’s request to give one piece of evidence that God exists – and my argument is not silly!
The existence of a creator god presupposes everything that is made possible only by virtue of a highly evolved living organism; consciousness, intelligence, creativity and purposeful action, all essential to sustaining and promoting the continued existence and refinement of the conditional existence of that which makes such possible.
So called "intelligent design" circumvents the law of causality and an understanding of the means and process by which intelligence arises in an otherwise meaningless pointless universe.
Life is not a gift but rather the fulfilment of continuously meeting the requirements imposed by reality on the conditions necessary for living just as intelligence is conditional on the sustenance of a living functioning brain along with an highly evolved understanding of how to use it. Belief in a divine creator is merely an attempt to circumvent both of these requirements.
So called "intelligent design" circumvents the law of causality and an understanding of the means and process by which intelligence arises in an otherwise meaningless pointless universe.
Life is not a gift but rather the fulfilment of continuously meeting the requirements imposed by reality on the conditions necessary for living just as intelligence is conditional on the sustenance of a living functioning brain along with an highly evolved understanding of how to use it. Belief in a divine creator is merely an attempt to circumvent both of these requirements.
Mibn2cweus, I wish I understood what you are saying. Particularly this sentence
Life is not a gift but rather the fulfilment of continuously meeting the requirements imposed by reality on the conditions necessary for living just as intelligence is conditional on the sustenance of a living functioning brain along with an highly evolved understanding of how to use it.
I wish I understood what you have written.
Life is not a gift but rather the fulfilment of continuously meeting the requirements imposed by reality on the conditions necessary for living just as intelligence is conditional on the sustenance of a living functioning brain along with an highly evolved understanding of how to use it.
I wish I understood what you have written.
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