ChatterBank9 mins ago
Koran
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Islam is so deeply divided, all Muslims seem to claim the Koran supports their side of the argument, so I reckon it's about time I read it for myself.
Can anyone recommend a particularly good translation ?
Can anyone recommend a particularly good translation ?
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Don't know about others, Atalanta, but I use the Penguin Classics version by Tarif Khalidi. It has a very good introduction. Note that today's version is not constructed in chronological order, so it doesn't make sense as a narrative. Ideally you should have a commentarty. Haven't got round to getting one myself - local Islamic book store didn't have one last time I was in there!
I recommend you read a biography of the Prophet, too. Karen Armstrong's Mohammed is a a fulsome hagiography, but is well-written and gives a good sense of what Islam is, certainly not "just another" religion, but a political project.
The main division in Isla - Shia versus Sunni - is mainly political, too - an argument over succession following Mohammed's death rather than disagreement over points of doctrine.
I recommend you read a biography of the Prophet, too. Karen Armstrong's Mohammed is a a fulsome hagiography, but is well-written and gives a good sense of what Islam is, certainly not "just another" religion, but a political project.
The main division in Isla - Shia versus Sunni - is mainly political, too - an argument over succession following Mohammed's death rather than disagreement over points of doctrine.
Also keep in mind that, unless you can read and write Classical Arabic, you cannot correctly interpret the Koran (Q'uran). "...The language of today's Quran is known as "Modern Standard Arabic" as opposed to "Classical Arabic" of the 6th century. The oldest examples of written Arabic only date to about the 4th century AD, as compared to written examples of Hebrew that date to well over a thousand years (10th century BC) prior to those of Arabic... (Source: http://
^That link is biased. Jay Smith is a Christian evangelist and apologist. In my opinion, if you're going to investigate something, at least be honest enough to do it with an open mind and without depending upon the endorsement of people who say what you want to hear.
I own three copies of the Koran and I don't have much to add to what V_E has said, except to say the original no longer exists, so you’re never going to be able to read that – and neither is anyone else. However, the various translations don't differ to any great degree, so any one of them will give you the general idea. I would also recommend you read Karen Armstrong's biography of Mohammed.
Happy reading. ;o)
I own three copies of the Koran and I don't have much to add to what V_E has said, except to say the original no longer exists, so you’re never going to be able to read that – and neither is anyone else. However, the various translations don't differ to any great degree, so any one of them will give you the general idea. I would also recommend you read Karen Armstrong's biography of Mohammed.
Happy reading. ;o)
First of all it may sound very odd but I do agree with what Naomi said in her post. That when you want to read about a religious book then do it with open mind and without reading stuff from a biased website which speaks itself “falseprophetmuhammad”. Before I recommend any let me tell you a few things. First of all Quran is the only religious book that exists in its original form not only in book form but also there are millions people who know Quran by heart word to word and punctuation to punctuation and this chain has never been broken since the time of Prophet (pbuh). Then Quran’s language is still in use and although I am not Arab but I could easily read the Quran in the museum in Istanbul when I was there in September. And that copy of Quran is one of the firsts ever been written.
Now coming back to your question. I would recommend a Quran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali preferably with commentary as translation alone will not be enough.
Now coming back to your question. I would recommend a Quran translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali preferably with commentary as translation alone will not be enough.
Keyplus, //First of all Quran is the only religious book that exists in its original ... book form //
Not true.
//….there are millions people who know Quran by heart word to word and punctuation to punctuation…//
True … but they haven’t learnt from the original because it doesn’t exist.
//…this chain has never been broken since the time of Prophet//
Not true. See above.
//And that copy of Quran is one of the firsts ever been written.//
An early copy - 'copy' being the operative word - and incomplete by a long way. I repeat, the original doesn’t exist.
You see, this is exactly what I meant when I said “if you're going to investigate something, at least be honest enough to do it with an open mind and without depending upon the endorsement of people who say what you want to hear”.
Why do you people of a religious persuasion persist in lying to yourselves? It makes no sense to me.
Not true.
//….there are millions people who know Quran by heart word to word and punctuation to punctuation…//
True … but they haven’t learnt from the original because it doesn’t exist.
//…this chain has never been broken since the time of Prophet//
Not true. See above.
//And that copy of Quran is one of the firsts ever been written.//
An early copy - 'copy' being the operative word - and incomplete by a long way. I repeat, the original doesn’t exist.
You see, this is exactly what I meant when I said “if you're going to investigate something, at least be honest enough to do it with an open mind and without depending upon the endorsement of people who say what you want to hear”.
Why do you people of a religious persuasion persist in lying to yourselves? It makes no sense to me.
Naomi,/Why do you people of a religious persuasion persist in lying to yourselves? It makes no sense to me. /
They choose the best lie that suits their preconceptions...thats why religions are all about faith, which is strange really because if believers really had faith they wouldn't feel the need to justify it. Perhaps morality is built into their subconscious and occasionally struggles to the surface.
They choose the best lie that suits their preconceptions...thats why religions are all about faith, which is strange really because if believers really had faith they wouldn't feel the need to justify it. Perhaps morality is built into their subconscious and occasionally struggles to the surface.
atalanta;//Can anyone recommend a particularly good translation ?//
To answer that with integrity would require someone who had read several versions for comparison, and even then the choice would be a subjective one.
The only Muslim on this thread is Keyplus, so I would, if I were you I'd take his advice.
My version is a modern translation by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, it is the only one I have read and I have no plans for further investigation.
To answer that with integrity would require someone who had read several versions for comparison, and even then the choice would be a subjective one.
The only Muslim on this thread is Keyplus, so I would, if I were you I'd take his advice.
My version is a modern translation by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, it is the only one I have read and I have no plans for further investigation.
Hypo, there is no version or translation of the Koran which cannot be used - very plausibly - to justify every action of ISIS. The trick lies not in explaining how the extremists have distorted the sacred texts, but how the incitements to violence against those who reject the message of Allah do not mean what what they apparently say.
I think, based on the last sentence in your post, that we probably agree about that.
Apologies to Atalanta. Your question doesn't deserve a rant from me. But I do think that knowing something about Islam, its founder and its history is useful knowledge. DYOR.
I think, based on the last sentence in your post, that we probably agree about that.
Apologies to Atalanta. Your question doesn't deserve a rant from me. But I do think that knowing something about Islam, its founder and its history is useful knowledge. DYOR.
@vetuste_ennemi
//The trick lies not in explaining how the extremists have distorted the sacred texts, but how the incitements to violence against those who reject the message of Allah do not mean what what they apparently say. //
Yep, if Islam would only leave the rest of the world alone - those who choose not to join their club - then I'd have nothing to worry about. There was a time when we could go months or years without thinking about them at all but they are among us now and, thanks to AB it's every 5 'ing minutes.
//The trick lies not in explaining how the extremists have distorted the sacred texts, but how the incitements to violence against those who reject the message of Allah do not mean what what they apparently say. //
Yep, if Islam would only leave the rest of the world alone - those who choose not to join their club - then I'd have nothing to worry about. There was a time when we could go months or years without thinking about them at all but they are among us now and, thanks to AB it's every 5 'ing minutes.
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