Atheism: Last Attempt

[retrocop]

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialDailyAtheist/videos/470170996475063/

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //Also you have a rather simplistic and narrow view of what religion is.//

There you go again with your lofty superior Christian judgement - I don't care what you think of my view of religion - it only matters to you, I have absolutely no idea why.

[Khandro]

naomi; Thank you for re-defining 13:09. So your position, in the end, is predicated on 'God'.

[Khandro]

andy; That statement ^ is neither Christian nor lofty, (why do you keep telling me I'm a Christian?) is is an obvious statement of fact.

If you met a person who told you that algebra was a load of nonsense and you asked him if he'd ever studied algebra and he said, "no but it's still a load of rubbish, what would you think of him?

[naomi24]

Khandro. //So your position, in the end, is predicated on 'God'.//

No. My position, in the end, is predicated on the absence of supernatural Gods.

[jomifl]

/If you met a person who told you that algebra was a load of nonsense and you asked him if he'd ever studied algebra and he said, "no but it's still a load of rubbish, what would you think of him?/
I'd think he would be able to pass for a christian .

[andy-hughes]

I am completely confused by the point you appear to be trying to make here.

You cannot equate asking someone about algebra with asking someone to believe in God – except that is not your parallel is it?

If I asked a man if he knew about algebra, and he said he knew nothing, but it was a load of rubbish, I would point out that algebra is a recognised and studied branch of maths, and its truths are acknowledged, defined, unchallenged and permanent. Therefore the ignorance of algebra is entirely his choice, and he has the power to change it.

If I asked a man if he believed God existed, and he said yes – I could not say the same. The existence of God is not acknowledged, defined, or unchallenged, it is simply what he believes to be true. I believe it not to be true. Neither of us knows if the other is right – but I would not be trying to sway him to my viewpoint, he would probably try to sway me to his.

But if your flawed analogy refers to the Bible, and belief in what it says, then because I have read it, and been taught about it, and hear extracts from it every Sunday morning, I can form an opinion that it is stating things that I believe to be untrue, and you can say that you believe it is true, but that does not prove you right and me wrong.

The difference again is – you desperately need to believe that you are right, I could not care less if I am right.

[Khandro]

//I'd think he would be able to pass for a christian . //

Can't see why, please explain.

[jomifl]

/You cannot self-define as one who has "absence of belief", - absence of belief in what?/
Who says so? ...Absence of belief in anything that requires belief ... simple.

[Khandro]

//I would point out that algebra is a recognised and studied branch of maths, //
Algebra per se is not the analogy, it could be replaced by any other area of study, - can you not grasp that? The analogy is to a person who has not studied a subject, knows little of it, but is confidently prepared to dismiss it, such as your attitude to religion; that is unless by finding "enlightenment in your early teens" you had been a most attentive student of theology throughout your infancy.

[Khandro]

j.To say you have an 'absence of belief' without a subject is grammatically and logically nonsensical.
Good night!

[jomifl]

//I'd think he would be able to pass for a christian . //

Can't see why, please explain.

Christians often have the ability to dismiss anything that they don't understand as rubbish. Their attitude to the theory of evolution is a good example, it conflicts with their religious dogma so rather than try to understand it they rubbish it, perhaps they should ditch the dogma.

[Canary42]

I make no apology for wheeling this one out again.

A dog thinks "This man feeds me, loves me, grooms me, houses me, pets me, and takes good care of me. He must be God."

A cat thinks, "This woman feeds me, loves me, grooms me, houses me, pets me, and takes good care of me. I must be God"

[naomi24]

Khandro, //j. To say you have an 'absence of belief' without a subject is grammatically and logically nonsensical.//

Stop scraping the barrel. The word ‘atheist’ is self-explanatory. See my post at 17:04 Thu 04th Feb.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //Algebra per se is not the analogy, it could be replaced by any other area of study, - can you not grasp that? The analogy is to a person who has not studied a subject, knows little of it, but is confidently prepared to dismiss it, such as your attitude to religion; that is unless by finding "enlightenment in your early teens" you had been a most attentive student of theology throughout your infancy. //

I seem to be failing to make my point here - I do not believe in God, therefore the trappings of religion are meaningless to me.

There is no need to study religion in depth in order to understand it - if the basic premise of religion does not exist.

Why would I spend time studying religion when I don't believe God exists?

It is not that I dismiss religion as rubbish - a blinkered attitude that would fit your default position that anyone who dismisses religion is a fool - it is that religion is meaningless to me because it revolves around a concept that I do not believe in.

So - I am not stupid, or ignorant - my belief is different to yours.

And as I keep saying, and you appear either not to grasp, or you ignore - it matters a lot to you, it doesn't matter at all to me.

[Khandro]

jomifl; //Their attitude to the theory of evolution is a good example, it conflicts with their religious dogma so rather than try to understand it they rubbish it,//

A typical lazy, unresearched statement, only seriously weird types do not believe in evolution. Are the beliefs of a few deluded (American?) fundamentalists the best reason you can come up with to dismiss an entire worldwide religion?
I have personally never met anyone who believes that the biblical Garden of Eden is anything but a metaphor, even the Pope doesn't believe that!

[jomifl]

/ only seriously weird types do not believe in evolution./

does evolution require belief?

[Old_Geezer]

Evolution merely requires the right conditions to operate. Your view of everything requires your belief though.

[jomifl]

It won't be long before all of the bible is a metaphor ...can't wait.

[Old_Geezer]

Having now watched the video, my impression is that the basic flaw must surely be the assumption that a deity would have any need to reveal all that is true to humans. By basing the atheist's argument on that, an unproven premise, the rest of the discussion is on very shaky ground. It's one of those things that initially may seem relevant to some, but in reality is just a pretty façade.