Homeless Refugees

[Canary42]

We mustn't forget that what we are "celebrating" tomorrow is the homeless refugee couple having to spend the cold and frosty night in a barn for their baby's birth.

Today the Little Englanders would rather see them drowned in the Mediterranean.

[Kathyan]

Another 'religious' festival stolen from the pagans!

[EDDIE51]

An 'Angel' (a non existent being) told Joseph that his wife was pregnant by 'The Holy Ghost' another non existent being, and he believed it! What modern man would swallow that story?
" I'm up the duff , but don't worry it was a Ghost what done it!"
He would go out "Ghost hunting"

[Old_Geezer]

What we are "celebrating" is getting presents, eating to excess, and drinking also. Plus the lengthening of the daylight hours in the cold season. Not someone who was off to fill in the census form from where they originated.

I think you are mixing up different situations.

[naomi24]

A few bits. Firstly there was no census at the time of the birth of Jesus. Historically the nearest census was about ten years adrift of the alleged date of the birth, long after the wicked King Herod had died - and that didn’t require everyone to return to the place of their birth to register. There’s no record of Herod’s slaughter of the innocents either.

Secondly, there was no stable. The wise men visited the baby at a house. The manger was possibly handy because it wasn’t unknown for people in that area of the world to share their homes/caves with their animals. Some still do. Thirdly, low winter (and night) temperatures in Israel are not unusual. Snow is not unknown.

All of that said, whilst I’m pretty much convinced that Jesus existed, the legend surrounding him has been shamelessly fabricated, much of it designed to tug at the heartstrings, as the story of Christmas (and that of the crucifixion) does – and it works. Personally I have a sneaking suspicion that Jesus was a man who would have been deemed pretty special – the rightful king of the Jews - hence Herod's pursuit of him. There was a fellow who wanted to hang on to his throne.

As fascinating as it is (to me at least) to try to make some sense of it all, the story, written long after the event, renders it one giant, complex, jigsaw puzzle - probably impossible to ever solve completely.

[Spicerack]

^ Killjoy

[Peter Pedant]

we have missed a bit in the it-didnt-happen-like-that scenario.

bear in mind - no evidence is not the same evidence-that-it-didnt - but hell this is AB so rules like that go darn the tube at line 1

three wise men er-er and their names - caspar, nalthasar and melchizidek er-er and one black er-er-er

the rewriting of Jesus story needed recognition that he was divine at the beginning - whilst others didnt, hence three wise men saying "ware izzee den, the ickle baby Jesus" ( wise and from essex,s ee) and the manger

and a recognition that he was divine at the end
offering myrrh at the crucifixion (B)

(B) has two versions - offering gall which was usually done then and then the change to myrrh ( showing kingship ) BUT there was also a failure to rewrite all versions. So the gall story persists in the Gospels showing what the scribes were up to

but you all knew that innit
I mean you were taught dat at skool - no?

[that post for slow readers was to show the actual process and reasons to re-write gospel stories]

[Theland]

Naomi - I think you very carefully select your sources.
Respectfully, they lack balance, and you should not present your authority as incontrovertible. It is definitely not.

[douglas9401]

Post of the year, right there at 10:26. :-)

[Old_Geezer]

Read somewhere, but not bothered to check, that the gospels mentions 3 gifts, but not how many "wise" men/kings/magi/whatever, turned up for the baby shower.

Was there more than one Herod then ? A "wicked" one who died previously, and a not so bad one that pursued Jesus ? All rather confusing.

[naomi24]

Theland, my source is precisely the same as yours and I haven’t claimed anything I’ve said to be incontrovertible. I’ve simply read the evidence presented and attempted to pick the bones out of it. Try it.

[Theland]

Again, I think Naomi has an agenda, and carefully selects her so called evidence to fit that agenda.
Her statements would not stand up to serious historical scrutiny.
But, if it comforts Naomi, let's not spoil her day?

[naomi24]

Theland, //Her statements would not stand up to serious historical scrutiny. //

Haaaa! And yours do?

Difficult eh, Theland. ;o)

[jno]

Eddie, whatever gave you the idea that it doesn't get cold in Israel?

https://dosmagazine.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Snow-Israel-Massive-Storm-Jerusalem-1-DM.jpg

[Theland]

Yes been trying that for many years.
What is your point?
If you are right you could bring Christianity down overnight.
You are wrong and you can't.
Write a book.

[Theland]

Nothing difficult Naomi.
God has the last word.

[naomi24]

Theland, best you keep trying.... but to do that you have to begin with a clean slate. No pre-conceived ideas. As I said, difficult, eh?

[naomi24]

Theland, ‘God has the last word’ has no place in serious discussion.

[Theland]

Naomi - I have listened to many atheist lectures and remain unconvinced.
But as qualified as these atheists are in the fields of science, history, and scripture, I have never heard any of them use the arguments that you employ.
You are simply not right.
Check out the atheist professors yourself.
That would dismiss your arguments as unworthy.

[Khandro]

n. Remember what William Penn said; "We must be governed by God or we will be ruled by tyrants". :0)

[Theland]

Khandro - Yes. Hitler, Stalin and Mao spring to mind.