Random Thought

[nailit]

If I *need* (why would I need?) to believe in a God for whatever reason (Eternal life. Avoiding eternal hell etc) then how could I be sure that the God that I believed in would be the one?
If 'God' himself appeared to me how could I be sure that this entity would indeed be the God of truth and not some impersonating spirit/delusion/demon/ etc?
Ive sometimes been asked what would turn me into a believer.
The answer is that I don't know.
But any God who cares enough about me WOULD know.
After 53 yrs on this Earth, I can only conclude that
1) God doesn't want me (or he would show me that he exists...no questions asked)
2) God doesn't exist

Either way, the problem is not mine.

[naomi24]

Incidentally Theland, no response from you on my State of Israel post.

[fiveleaves]

Doesn't a person have a basic responsibility to ask some fundamental questions
Who am i?
Why am i on this planet?
Who created me?
Is there a God?
How do I need to respond to God.

For me Christianity is the truth. Jesus is who he says he is in the Bible.
I had a slightly religious upbringing although not from a churchgoing family. Became a firm atheist as a teenager, then became a Christian at 17

[Theland]

Fair enough Naomi. I take that back.
But I think you put too much faith in science being able to answer the big questions.
So far it is failure.

[Theland]

https://creationtoday.org/why-does-the-bible-mention-unicorns/

Nailit - I hope this explains it to you.

[nailit]

//Who am i?
Why am i on this planet?
Who created me?
Is there a God?
How do I need to respond to God. //

You assume that we are created.
Then assume that there is a God
And then assume that this God needs responding to.

Lot of assumtions there.

[nailit]

//Nailit - I hope this explains it to you//
Just because its you Theland, and you're feeling a little jaded, I'll have a butchers. ;-)

But a bit later maybe...

[Theland]

Who makes more assumptions than the atheist?
No answers to anything, just assumptions that science has, or will, answer the big questions.

[nailit]

/Who makes more assumptions than the atheist?
No answers to anything, just assumptions that science has, or will, answer the big questions.//

So in the meantime, men in robes, dog collars, skull caps etc make some **** up and that will suffice?

Got it!
Thanks.

[Theland]

Nothing made up.
Still can't fathom you.
You don't believe in the God that bothers you so much. You spend so much time and energy posting about what appears to anger you.
I don't get it.

[nailit]

//Nothing made up.
Still can't fathom you.
You don't believe in the God that bothers you so much. You spend so much time and energy posting about what appears to anger you.
I don't get it//

Then reverse it Theland.
Why do you bother to engage atheists here?
Eh?
Why so angry about unbelievers but you still post and get angry about replies. Why bother?

[fiveleaves]

Is there a God? was framed by me as a question so not an assumption.
If there is a God it logically follows that He needs to be responded to.
Who created me? is linked to Who am I?
Maybe you believe in the theory of evolution, i dont
i dont think anybody progresses through with any strong sense that they are descended from apes. It doesn't feature at all in my self awareness my intrinsic sense of self.

[Theland]

Where did that come from?
I am most certainly not angry with unbelievers.
I try to listen to to lectures from leading atheists and scientists who research the big questions.
What is wrong with that?

[GymLadTim]

Hi nailit can I ask you a personal question as an atheist?

My mum has had a terrible life battling with alcoholism, men who knocked her around, being homeless. Her drinking has led to health problems and she will probably be in pain for the rest of her life now. I'm the only ray of sunshine she has ever had. If there is no afterlife or God then that must be very depressing for people who have had bad lives. Would she have been better killing herself as a child and not having to suffer so much if there is nothing better afterward? Do you feel depressed about not going to a better place after this life?

[Theland]

A better life to live with hope, than suffer hopelessness.

[jourdain2]

Theland. I could not agree more. To Nailit and others - once God/the spirit (call it what you will) touches you then you just know. Hard to explain more clearly. It only has to happen once, for a split second. I'm amenable to arguments about the Bible, Koran, reality etc. etc. - all the bits by which we have tried to explain religions. But I KNOW that God is there. My chosen path is C of E - and, believe me the beurocracy is enough to make me give up sometimes and dance around the nearest sunflower!

[Theland]

jourdain2 - I too used to worship in the C of E, but I do not attend any church now.
The ecumenism of the church put me off as it is so unbiblical.

[nailit]

GLT
//Do you feel depressed about not going to a better place after this life?//
No. And why do people assume that if there IS an afterlife its going to be better than this one? Why do people automatically assume that they are headed for a paradise. The muslim suicide bomber believes that he will go to a paradise as well. Would you want to share a paradise with one of those? Theres a lot of people who report having hellish vision while on their death bed, what about those?
Sorry about ur mums life but its surely up to us to make THIS life better, both for ourselves and for others. Its the only life that we can be sure off.

[nailit]

Jourdain
//To Nailit and others - once God/the spirit (call it what you will) touches you then you just know//
I don't doubt that people have experiences but if will read my OP again you may understand what Im asking.
Just *HOW* do you know?
How would you know that you weren't deceived by some demonic entity (if you believe in such things...the Bible says that satan can masquerade as an angel of light) or some other psychological mechanism?
Ive reported on here more than once that I had what could be described as a 'spiritual' experience in a psych hospital after a mental breakdown. If I had been religious I would have attributed that experience to whatever deity I believed in.
I see it as a purely psychological experience.

[Old_Geezer]

"i dont think anybody progresses through with any strong sense that they are descended from apes"

I know they do. Seems pretty self evident to me.

[jourdain2]

Theland 22 something 6/8. I do tend to agree. As it happens our village church manages to keep free of most of it, we are so small that no-one bothers us much and it is a beautiful little Norman foundation which is an essential part of village life (we leafleted every house and they want it there - just not prepared to pay for the upkeep!). :)