The Return Of The God Hypothesis.

[Theland]

If science puts up barriers and refuses to follow truth wherever it leads, then it is left floundering for answers to the big questions, on the creation of the universe, the creation of life from inert chemicals, and the impossibility of Darwin's theory of a sing!e cell ancestor.
Do you consider yourself open minded about such matters and not constricted by a naturalistic worldview?
https://youtu.be/y02a28FrMKs

[Neveracrossword]

Theland, as has been pointed out (many, many times) before, the rebuttals, negations, whatever that totally disprove many of your assertions have been offered to you and rejected by you. No, I don't know the names of those scientists who could 'shoot you down' - but I don't need to know. I am not the one who makes ill-founded claims, offers spurious stuff as proof … and then diverges into 'you're all out to get me' territory.

[Theland]

Oh come on Never!
Friendly now.

[Neveracrossword]

Theland, if I was being derisory, I could say 'your post doesn't even merit a reply'. As it is, I don't understand yours, and don't understand what 'oh come on' refers to.

[Theland]

Never, I have cited expert scientists to make my case, but you find fault with that? How?
A discussion turns into a debate with winners and losers.
Then you come along to also criticise.
What's that all about?

[Neveracrossword]

Theland, 'a discussion turns into a debate with winners and losers' sounds rather lofty - and definitely doesn't describe this thread. You have tried to dismiss everyone else's viewpoint , and resorted to sniping at people. I have always accepted that you have found some scientists who (apparently) agree with some of your points - but the scientific community is huge, and there are many others who don't. You said 'then you come along to criticise, what's that all about?'. It's 'about' my exasperation at you employing all your usual tactics to try to dismiss all the counter arguments.

[Theland]

Well if it now designated as an argument, where are all the expert witnesses from the atheist side?
From you?

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Well if it now designated as an argument, where are all the expert witnesses from the atheist side? //

How can anyone be an 'expert' in nothing - which is the absence of belief that is the definition of an atheist?

[Theland]

The atheist scientists have always tried to explain the answers to the big questions, without God.
So far they have failed.
The bog standard answer is to say that one day, science will have the answers, but not yet.
If that isn't faith, what is?

[naomi24]

//The atheist scientists have always tried to explain the answers to the big questions, without God. //

There's no point in adding something for which there is no evidence into the mix.

[archibaldy]

Science is about proving things and there is no way to prove God - that's not a barrier it's the way science works. Sad to see people like Stephen Meyer as he obviously likes science and is intelligent and has a questioning mind, but can't fully explore the answers as he'll never countenance that the answer will not be God.

[Theland]

Archbaldy, Meyer seeks to prove that there is an intelligent Designer.
You call that God if you wish, Meyer does, bit does not ma!e it imperative.
Can you find fault with the facts as presented by the Discovery Institute, or like others on here, refuse to remove the blinkers?

[archibaldy]

The title of this post, and the video linked to is "...the God Hypothesis" so I'd say the foregone conclusion and the label applied to the 'designer' is clear. I use that label so you know what I'm talking about.

I don't know enough about the "facts" to disagree with them but I do know that trying to use science to prove or disprove God is futile, they exist in different realms of human reality. There are no blinkers in science, but to use your analogy, the horses are running on completely different racetracks.

If people want to believe in the God stories then that's literally all they need to do, I could do it now between sips of my coffee. Science on the other hand takes rather more work, all those things presented by Meyer are the result of many thousands of years of human enquiry all he's doing is putting 1 more sentence at the end.. "And God did it" - simple. And that's where the blinkers are.

[naomi24]

Theland, Meyer //has absolutely no qualifications within the fields of biology, cosmology, or chemistry; he does hold a Bachelor of Science in geology and physics, but his Ph.D is in the philosophy of science which has no relevance to evolutionary biology. //

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Stephen_C._Meyer

[naomi24]

Theland, in the hope of studying the ‘facts’ you mention that are offered by the Discovery Institute, I went to their website and clicked on two links to ‘Intelligent Design’, one of which took me to an eight page bookshop, the other to a plea for $50 donations. Where did you find these 'facts'? I really would like to have a look at them.

[pixie374]

Theland, you often seem to claim that if somebody doesn't believe something, or think it is likely, they must have proof of knowing differently.
For me, it's the other way around, I like to know "before" I believe something. Until then, I'm happy to say I don't know...
Would you believe me if I said the universe came from a giant dolphin? And can you prove it didn't? It's as irrational as that.

[pixie374]

... unlikely...

[beso]

That dolphin religion has real potential in some circles. Weirder things are believed by large numbers of people.

[Theland]

Naomi, Meyer is eminent!y qualified to speak on I.D.
and works with eminent scientists such as Michael Behe and the German palaeontologist / curator, (name escapes me), whose career was promoting Darwin until he examined the evidence. Lots lots more believe me.
Regards selling books and asking for donations, remember that these people are cut off from the lucrative university research grants, and are treated as an athema.
Have you actually examined the evidence for yourself?
Its fascinating, and leaves Darwin standing as an ichon without real substance.

[Theland]

The Philistines worshipped a fish god.

[Theland]

Our so called holy men wear hats resembling a fish mouth.