ChatterBank1 min ago
Why Don’t The Religious Ask Why?
178 Answers
Pondering the posts here, Goodlife quotes from The Watchtower or his preferred version of the bible, Theland quotes from anything that agrees with his own views at any given time (even the much despised Billy Graham organisation if it suits the purpose), Khandro quotes philosophers and those he regards as men of wisdom… and so on… but not one of them ever appears to have an independent thought. They accept it all ‘religiously’ without ever asking ‘Why?’
Why, for example, if God is, as we’re led to believe, omniscient/omnipotent/omnipresent, did he err? Why, if he knew what the outcome would be, did he create man and then regret it? Why (as Idiosyncrasy claimed the other day).did God give Satan permission to rule the earth when that sort of rule wasn’t what God wanted at all? To me none of it makes sense - so it makes sense to ask ‘Why?’ ... doesn’t it?
Why don’t you?
Why, for example, if God is, as we’re led to believe, omniscient/omnipotent/omnipresent, did he err? Why, if he knew what the outcome would be, did he create man and then regret it? Why (as Idiosyncrasy claimed the other day).did God give Satan permission to rule the earth when that sort of rule wasn’t what God wanted at all? To me none of it makes sense - so it makes sense to ask ‘Why?’ ... doesn’t it?
Why don’t you?
Answers
I did ask why to a few things many years ago as a teenager that went to CoE sometimes with my friends family, and all the answers I received both in books and from people didn't pass my own personal smell test so I just quietly stopped going. However it should be said that religion wasn't a large part of my life or identity, I had plenty of more enjoyable activities...
22:03 Mon 12th Oct 2020
God has given us all freewill so we can all choose to love Him or not.
Love is a choice. Personal freedom is one of the greatest gifts God has given us.
Why dont atheists ask is it really worth taking the risk?
What is a few paltry of rebellion against God against an eternity of existing without the presence of God
Love is a choice. Personal freedom is one of the greatest gifts God has given us.
Why dont atheists ask is it really worth taking the risk?
What is a few paltry of rebellion against God against an eternity of existing without the presence of God
You havnt read the thread have you fiveleaves?
//God has given us all freewill so we can all choose to love Him or not//
And if we choose not to? What is the penalty?
So how is this freewill?
I created my son. I give him freewill to love me or abandon me.
If he loves me back in return, great!
If he abandons me then I will let him get on with his life, I will not condemn him to eternal torture for not loving me back.
This free will arguement in theology is flawed as long as it has a punishment for using freewill. There cannot be freewill will where a punishment is impossed for using it.
//God has given us all freewill so we can all choose to love Him or not//
And if we choose not to? What is the penalty?
So how is this freewill?
I created my son. I give him freewill to love me or abandon me.
If he loves me back in return, great!
If he abandons me then I will let him get on with his life, I will not condemn him to eternal torture for not loving me back.
This free will arguement in theology is flawed as long as it has a punishment for using freewill. There cannot be freewill will where a punishment is impossed for using it.
Maybe it would help if I told you why I believe?
After having Christianity explained to me in detail, (aged 30), it made sense to me.
I prayed the sinners prayer but continued to sin. But I was changing slowly.
Studied prophecy, and was astonished at the accuracy of the bible. Knew then it was real.
Began feeling the change in me, undeniable, as promised in the bible. All true.
Praise the Lord that I am saved,and want it for my family too, and also for you.
The change is real.
After having Christianity explained to me in detail, (aged 30), it made sense to me.
I prayed the sinners prayer but continued to sin. But I was changing slowly.
Studied prophecy, and was astonished at the accuracy of the bible. Knew then it was real.
Began feeling the change in me, undeniable, as promised in the bible. All true.
Praise the Lord that I am saved,and want it for my family too, and also for you.
The change is real.
Khandro, I’ve no idea what ‘popular’ atheism is, but I believe my thoughts are independent. Why don’t you answer the question?
You too, Theland.
This thread is being sidetracked - and I suspect deliberately.
Theland, // Naomi has often said she can explain away prophecy, but never referenced, only her own opinion.//
Information is available to anyone who wants to learn. Therefore other people’s opinions no more valid than mine. Just so you know. Now please just stick to the topic of the OP.
You too, Theland.
This thread is being sidetracked - and I suspect deliberately.
Theland, // Naomi has often said she can explain away prophecy, but never referenced, only her own opinion.//
Information is available to anyone who wants to learn. Therefore other people’s opinions no more valid than mine. Just so you know. Now please just stick to the topic of the OP.
Fiveleaves, //Why dont atheists ask is it really worth taking the risk?//
God knows the secrets of all hearts …. allegedly. He’s going to know if you’re doing it for the wrong reasons…. which from what you’ve said sounds rather likely. I don't think you're alone in that though. Just think. Without the promise of saving your own sorry souls none of you would give God a second thought. He would be redundant. Poor old God. The only way he can keep his mates is to bully them into submission.
God knows the secrets of all hearts …. allegedly. He’s going to know if you’re doing it for the wrong reasons…. which from what you’ve said sounds rather likely. I don't think you're alone in that though. Just think. Without the promise of saving your own sorry souls none of you would give God a second thought. He would be redundant. Poor old God. The only way he can keep his mates is to bully them into submission.
Theland
Mkbn2ceweus - You worship the god of reason.
Two things.
First of all, you cannot reason your way to an objective reality.
(Prove me wrong?)
Secondly, psychopaths are entirely reasonable.
Why not take whatever I like, and use people for whatever I want, and eliminate them if they get in the way of my pleasure / ambitions / plans / whims?
Dawkins himself said that the universe is devoid of morals, no good, no evil, just a cold indifference.
From your perspective then, what value reason?
20:01 Mon 05th Oct 2020
//You worship the god of reason.//
Right off the bat, worship is anathema to reason.
//First of all, you cannot reason your way to an objective reality.//
(Prove me wrong?)//
Reality doesn’t bend to reason. Objectivity follows from an understanding of that essential fact.
Reason begins with an essential grasp of the nature of reality which forms the basis upon which logic can constructively and productively be applied.
//Secondly, psychopaths are entirely reasonable.//
You said that. Not me.
//Why not take whatever I like, and use people for whatever I want, and eliminate them if they get in the way of my pleasure / ambitions / plans / whims?//
If you haven’t figured out by now why it’s wrong to impose your will upon others without any attempt to explain why that is in their mutual best interest I won’t waste anymore of our time trying to reason with you . . . or your god.
//Dawkins himself said that the universe is devoid of morals, no good, no evil, just a cold indifference.
From your perspective then, what value reason?//
Morals are of no benefit nor are they applicable to an unconditional reality. Only living thinking individuals stand to benefit from what only they have access to or need of, the process of reason.
Mkbn2ceweus - You worship the god of reason.
Two things.
First of all, you cannot reason your way to an objective reality.
(Prove me wrong?)
Secondly, psychopaths are entirely reasonable.
Why not take whatever I like, and use people for whatever I want, and eliminate them if they get in the way of my pleasure / ambitions / plans / whims?
Dawkins himself said that the universe is devoid of morals, no good, no evil, just a cold indifference.
From your perspective then, what value reason?
20:01 Mon 05th Oct 2020
//You worship the god of reason.//
Right off the bat, worship is anathema to reason.
//First of all, you cannot reason your way to an objective reality.//
(Prove me wrong?)//
Reality doesn’t bend to reason. Objectivity follows from an understanding of that essential fact.
Reason begins with an essential grasp of the nature of reality which forms the basis upon which logic can constructively and productively be applied.
//Secondly, psychopaths are entirely reasonable.//
You said that. Not me.
//Why not take whatever I like, and use people for whatever I want, and eliminate them if they get in the way of my pleasure / ambitions / plans / whims?//
If you haven’t figured out by now why it’s wrong to impose your will upon others without any attempt to explain why that is in their mutual best interest I won’t waste anymore of our time trying to reason with you . . . or your god.
//Dawkins himself said that the universe is devoid of morals, no good, no evil, just a cold indifference.
From your perspective then, what value reason?//
Morals are of no benefit nor are they applicable to an unconditional reality. Only living thinking individuals stand to benefit from what only they have access to or need of, the process of reason.
MIBs, you are way off the mark.
The reality we experience through our five senses, and empirical evidence forms our worldview.
If I want something, what not take it?
That is entirely reasonable.
Do you lock your doors at night?
Yes?
Then you are locking out unreasonable people.
You cannot reason your way to an objective morality.
The reality we experience through our five senses, and empirical evidence forms our worldview.
If I want something, what not take it?
That is entirely reasonable.
Do you lock your doors at night?
Yes?
Then you are locking out unreasonable people.
You cannot reason your way to an objective morality.
