Do You Prefer Fact Or Fiction?

[nailit]

After 55 years on this earth I prefer fact.
As much as it pains me, as much as it upsets me, I prefer facts over faith.
A few weeks ago I was nearly suicidal. Still prefer facts to 'faith'. If I had ended my life then, I would have been dead, end off, no atheist in foxhole here.
Just dont understand this religious preoccupation with living forever....
I honesty just dont get it?
What the hell are you going to to FOREVER?
It would be like watching a game of football that went on forever...there wouldnt be a point,

[Theland]

The general rule is that I get crowded out on here, which is the AB equivalent of being shouted down.

Holiness is that attribute of God that is difficult if not impossible for is to grasp, but certainly means absolute glory, endless selfless love for others, and sheer perfection.

[Theland]

Nailit, you are forever telling us you have friends of every religion including Christians, so I must say either they never talk to you about God and the bible, or if they do, they have not understood it either.
You call it evil, yet the whole bible leads up to Jesus Christ right through from Genesis to Revelation.

[Theland]

Are you therefore suggesting Jesus was evil?

[nailit]

//Are you therefore suggesting Jesus was evil?//
I dont know if a character named Jesus even existed.

What I AM saying is that the gospel accounts of Jesus are not flattering to say the least (Not if you read them in their entirety, and not just the nice bits...)

Bit of a nutter if he were to exist today and the gospels were his biography (Which they arent and actually C'ANT be)

[nailit]

//Nailit, you are forever telling us you have friends of every religion including Christians, so I must say either they never talk to you about God and the bible,//
No, my muslims collegues dont talk about the bible obviously....
My Christian friends, talk about the bible occasionally.
Curious though how they change the subject when I quote a scripture or two back???

But hey, they are my friends, love them non-theless.
They don't want to get into a debate and neither do I. Accept each other for what we are..

But *I* do ask for a reason for their beliefs.

[Theland]

Nailit, I'm afraid I am not impressed with your grasp of the bible, Christianity or history, and that from somebody who is no scholar and easily impressed.
Bit by bit by bit you are building up a picture of yourself in my mind, that had I been a psychologist, I would be having a field day!
But I'm not, and therefore, I'm not.

However, (yes, there's always a, ''however,''), I would suggest that your endless questions on the subject are not borne of any hobby or mere interest on your part, but that deep down your soul is screaming out for some kind of reassurance, and when you don't find it, you become a loose cannon, blasting each way and which way trying to destroy the very thing that eludes you.
If I am even half right, swallow your pride and say so.
After all, it only a load of Answerbankers who will see your answer, and who are they anyway?
Your friends? Great! Mine too! And friends won't harm you, and anybody else can go and, erm, do one!

[Theland]

Mibs@22:33 Sunday -
You don't believe anything was created?
That statement surely requires an explanation?
Several in fact!
Unless you fall back on a commonly held default position on Answerbank, that is, ''I don't know,'' then some evidence for your outlook would be greatly appreciated.

[mibn2cweus]

Ask yourself why you misrepresent every response I offer to your questions. Where did I say, "I don't believe anything was created?"
But since you asked, arguing beliefs contributes nothing to a pursuit of truth.

What I have said on the previous page is, "I don't presume anything is created." There's one reason I don't argue from beliefs. Many if not most beliefs are based on presumption. Anyone who presumes 'God' is an explanation for anything, the universe, the solar system or a single atom renders any explanation anyone else might ask them to consider futile.

[Theland]

MIBs, thank you.
I am still puzzled though.
Scientists agree that the universe came to exist approximate!y 13.7bn years ago in a creation event colloquially called the Big Bang.
These include atheists such as Sean Carroll, Lawrence Krause, Stephen Hawking, Brian Cox and Roger Penrose.
Their quest now is to find what caused it but the creation event is not in doubt.
That have tried and continue to do so, to find the explanation and are quite prepared to share their progress.
Will you now snare your thoughts on the cause?

[mibn2cweus]

I suffer from no presuppositions of being able to convince you or anyone else to subscribe to my cosmogony but I'm not opposed to sharing my own thoughts on these matters with anyone interested enough to consider them. Based on what I've gathered from previous discussions with you, our respective world views are virtual polar opposites of each other's. As far as I can ascertain, concepts of causality, time and space become meaningless outside the domain of an existing universe within which they take place. There can be no continuum of time preceding that which time measures, no causality where nothing exists to cause or to be effected, no space where no matter exists to be seperated, no consciousness without anything to be conscious of or means to be conscious with.
Evolution is not simply a theory to be swept under the rug of incredulity. It is inherent in an ever changing universe that enables such things as life, sensation, consciousness and reason to develop to a point where awareness, discussion and understanding of evolution and the existence of a universe that makes any of it possible can take place. The notion of a 'supernatural creator god' is possible only by ignoring everything required for the existence of a mind with the capacity to contrive such a notion.
I have reason, based on experience, that you will dismiss my cosmogony as complete nonsense. Regardless, I provided you with the rudimentary basis for further discussion of my worldview that is what, as best I can surmise, you requested.

[nailit]

//Nailit, I'm afraid I am not impressed with your grasp of the bible//
Sorry about that! When you've read it get back to me...

//Bit by bit by bit you are building up a picture of yourself in my mind//
Hope I've got my clothes on in these thoughts!

//had I been a psychologist, I would be having a field day//
I bet...

//But I'm not, and therefore, I'm not//
Oh! Thats disappointing...

//I would suggest that your endless questions on the subject are not borne of any hobby or mere interest on your part, but that deep down your soul is screaming out for some kind of reassurance, and when you don't find it, you become a loose cannon, blasting each way and which way trying to destroy the very thing that eludes you//
Err, No!

//If I am even half right, swallow your pride and say so//
Not even a 1/16 right. Nothing to swallow.

[Theland]

MIBs - thank you again.
Still some points of interest raised.
You mention evolution, in the context of it being a law, a force, a mechanism, call it what you will.
Never mind. The point is, what is the origin of this? The lawgiver?

[naomi24]

Pearls before swine, mibs.

[Zacs-Master]

Don’t you ever get tired of wasting your lives debating the same shiiite day after day?

[mibn2cweus]

//Don’t you ever get tired of wasting your lives debating the same shiiite day after day?//

I don't consider the nature of reality to be debatable. Reality has no stake in what we think about it. It's simply there for us to discover and understand for the sake of our own survival and wellbeing. Mutual understanding enables us to share the mutual benefits that provides.
I do not consider that to be a waste of time but rather a contribution to the value of what time we have.

[Theland]

Another way of saying facts don't care about feelings, they remain the same, and it is to be considered miraculous that this reality of ours is in fact intelligible at all.
Given that, it is in our gift to be able to discover and learn what we can, whilst we can, and hopefully enrich the lives of ourselves and others, and maybe bring about enlightenment.
There again, a dullard like me must grasp every opportunity available to rub shoulders with, and debate, greater minds than mine, in the hope that some learning might be had.
So I don't consider it ***, just the opposite in fact.

[Theland]

Nailit, you seem to have a warped view of Jesus based on what you have read of him in your bible.
Why?

[naomi24]

Theland, I think you have a warped view of Jesus based upon what you’ve read of him in the bible Burbank that’s because you approach it with pre-conceived ideas that you’re determined to cling to rather than with honest curiosity.

[Theland]

So THATS the way I approach it.
Righto. Thanks for that!
Hmmm! As a matter of interest, how do you know HOW I approach the bible?

[naomi24]

Oh! You’ve come up for air and are talking to me again, Theland. That little strop didn’t last long.

I know how you approach the bible because you tell us.