Are You Saved?

[fiveleaves]

And if so, How do you know?

[nailit]

//However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished //

Credit where its due!
The idea of eternal suffering is pagan in origin.
Its not only sick, its indefensible and immoral?

But so is genocide!

[fiveleaves]

Atheist, (Thurs 19.22). You know a lot of things by personal experience. The most obvious example I can think of is love. Yes it is helpful to have somebody tell you occassionally that they love you, but primarily you know what love is through personal experience.
We are all emotional people and emotions are both good and important.
I wont deny the veracity of my relationship with God on the basis that there are schizophrenics who claim to hear God's voice.

[Khandro]

fiveleaves; You don't have to be a schizophrenic to hear (& see) God.

[fiveleaves]

Khandro, That is exactly what I am saying

[nailit]

fiveleaves
If ur Aunty Ethel pinched a few sweets out of a shop when she was a teenager, should she burn FOREVER as a result of that sin?

Thats what you are saying...

[nailit]

//You don't have to be a schizophrenic to hear (& see) God.//
(But it helps)

Otherwise just believe whatever your pastor/vicar/priest/bishop/rabbi/imman/guru/ prophet/elder/deacon/pope/presbyter/primate/swammi/swami/saint/yogi/Ayattolha/
tells you to.

[nailit]

My consciousness tells me that no one should be tortured for eternity.

[fiveleaves]

Nailit, Your questions are simply irrelevant to this thread.
I am a Christian because I have a relationship with the living God.
It is not simply my Pastor telling me something although I appreciate good thinking.
If you want to disagree and argue with me that is perfectly fine, but at least disagree with my remarks in this thread and not with something I am not talking about.

[nailit]

//Nailit, Your questions are simply irrelevant to this thread//

Because you dont like them, doesnt make them irrelevant!

[Atheist]

Khandro 17:13.
No but it helps.

[nailit]

//you want to disagree and argue with me that is perfectly fine//
& you tell me that its irrelevant???

[Atheist]

Khandro and fiveleaves; If I said that I'd heard God and he told me that you were both wrong and that I was right, what would you think? I may be wrong, but I think you would think I was deluded. Must have been the same for Jesus.

[Atheist]

Can't you see that you believe what you want to believe, and the only way to behave decently is to follow the golden rule - 'do unto others as you would wish they do to you' (unless you're a masochist).

[nailit]

//And if so, How do you know?//
You cannot.
According to the bible, Satan himself appears as an angel of light.
God himself sends decietful spirits.
The human heart is decietful.
God sends lying spirits.
He speaks in parables so that we wont know the truth.

So how on fuc king Earth can we know any truth???

[fiveleaves]

Atheist, the Golden Rule loving your neighbour as yourself is part of the essence of Christianity.
You appear to have a problem with anyone hearing from God. Why is that? We were created to have a relationship with God.

[nailit]

And (arcording to Jesus) even the 'elect' are subject to deception.
How would you know?

[Atheist]

Nailit; is it any use to quote the Bible? It seems to suggest that you are still in its grip. Why not appeal to universal human nature?

[fiveleaves]

Nailit, the testimony of the Holy Spirit tells me what is true.
God does not, cannot lie.
That is why a person needs to born again as the carnal man does not know the things of God

[Atheist]

fiveleaves; the Golden Rule was around long before Jesus. It's a natural position for any thinking human with decent instincts. If you could for once think outside the box and forget Jesus for a minute you might realise that there are other explanations for human decency. Do you think that I am a wicked person who should be rejected and punished by God?

[nailit]

//Nailit, the testimony of the Holy Spirit tells me what is true.//
How do you know its the holy spirit?
You cant possibly know that?